DanceswithCows wrote:OK, I have looked at that and I'm not seeing what you are seeing:
- You still have not explained why in your opinion there are no terms within this special race of draught cattle for the breeding & young stock. We have terms for horses - mare, filly, colt, stallion, etc. and we have terms for cows, bulls, calves etc. but for oxen, they are all just oxen, whether male female or baby, apparently. Why would this be? The oxherd has a high status for looking after these animals, yet NO terminology has evolved to describe them in any more detail? Hmm.
Why would oxen have their own names? As Brother Ranulf said earlier, they are just a type of cattle, not a separate species. It's the same way that we don't have different names for female rouncies and sumpters, because with all their differences, they're both horses.
DanceswithCows wrote:- As I've said, there is no evidence there that "oxen" relates to anything other than 'non breeding or youngstock'. If we accept your classifications, where ARE the beef stock that the bishop ate? The breeding stock and babies are accounted for, there is nothing to say 'meat' in those terms, nothing more or less than in the classification 'oxen' either? The fact that females and young may be present in the ox group is no surprise - not all females can breed, and you have to start training somewhere...it was common to have a team of 8 separated by a year in age and the oldest ones were bumped off to bring in the youngest ones so you always had a supply of prime well grown beef and well trained animals in the team to lessen the challenge of bringing in green animals when work *had* to be done.
Good point about the meat stock. How are the meet stock for sheep indicated?
You said that there is no evidence were used for breeding. Is there any evidence that they weren't?
DanceswithCows wrote:- My point about it eroding the economy of keeping oxen at all by keeping them purely for draught remains unanswered, which surprises me - It's totally ox-knowledge 101 that what makes oxen so prevalent is the economy of keeping them, and that includes eating them! Specialist dairy and beef animals didn't exist for the selfsame reason, why would the triple purpose of draught be any different? As I said, keep an animal purely for draught and you are firmly in horse territory, but with less speed = pointless.
According to Wikipedia (sorry), oxen have more stamina and are less prone to injury. As Brother R has stated, they are also stronger. So, no, not pointless.
I'm afraid that the way you're presenting your arguments isn't helping your case here. You are taking a very aggressive stance against some-one who has earned respect here and it's making me less and less inclined to even read your posts. If you want to win us over, adjust your tone before you offend someone.
Brother Ranulf, thank you for the glossary. Do you mind if I distributed this to our group (crediting you)?
Also, am I correct in saying that:
The house is in the toft.
The toft is beside (but not in) the croft (which is similar to a modern garden)
The messuage includes croft, toft and any other associated buildings?
Or have I read that wrongly?