A mystery of hose attachment

Making, Pictures, Queries, Resources

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Spurious
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 7:53 pm
Location: Basingstoke

A mystery of hose attachment

Postby Spurious » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:26 pm

Recently I came across an image of Saint Erasmus by Dieric Bouts dated to sometime around/before 1466.
Image
Not this copy but one in a book of saints, hence being able to get a nice close look at it.

What caught my eye was the man on the right, who apart from having separate leg hose, appears to have his hose attached to a garment beneath his shirt, which is apparently laced up the front.
Image

But he also appears to have the tell-tale double spots of point holes on his shirt. I''m not sure if the shirt is tucked into the back item as it appears (to me) to be coming out over the groin (the thick black line being a piece of cord used as a belt if not maybe?)
Image

A lot of things about this seem curious, so does anyone know just what I'm looking at here, or of other examples?



User avatar
Neibelungen
Post Centurion
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:56 pm
Location: Leeds
Contact:

Re: A mystery of hose attachment

Postby Neibelungen » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:21 pm

To my eye, judging by the very subtle colour difference between the white shirt and the very pale cream of the pointed waist band thing, it looks like a belted doublet folded down around the waist. What your seeing is the inside front lining of the doublet. If there were a pair of dark sleeves hanging down from his waistband/belt round the back you'd probably have no doubts.

Basically I'd think he's rolled his doublet down round his waist and is toiling in 'shirt-sleves' as it were ?


Military Metalwork
Accoutrements, Regalia, Headdres & Metalwork

http://www.militarymetalwork.co.uk

User avatar
Alan E
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:18 am
Location: Somewhere in Southern Wales now (unless elsewhere)

Re: A mystery of hose attachment

Postby Alan E » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:23 pm

I think you are mistaking the white (linen?) lining of his doublet (which is IMO folded down) for an extension of his white (linen?) shirt.

The thick black line above the inverted V of his (brown? black?) doublet is IMO the fold of his doublet, the white above it his shirt and the white below it (with point-holes for fastening in front) is the lining of the doublet. Because this is folded outwards, it is outside the (brown/black) to which his hose are laced.

Simple way of wearing the doublet as a belt, by unlacing the front (except the last lacing), removing the arms and folding it downwards.

Edit to add:
Ahhhh!!! second then (maybe the lack of sleeves hanging down mean it's a sleeveless doublet :devil: )


'till whispers fill the tower of memory...
The Exiles Company of Medieval Martial Artists: http://the-exiles.org.uk/

Now teaching Fiore's art in Ceredigion (Felinfach) - pm for details

User avatar
Neibelungen
Post Centurion
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:56 pm
Location: Leeds
Contact:

Re: A mystery of hose attachment

Postby Neibelungen » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Snap !!!

:lol:


Military Metalwork
Accoutrements, Regalia, Headdres & Metalwork

http://www.militarymetalwork.co.uk

User avatar
Spurious
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 7:53 pm
Location: Basingstoke

Re: A mystery of hose attachment

Postby Spurious » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:35 pm

Thanks, the complete lack of visible sleeves/doublet back really does confuse the whole thing.



User avatar
Zachos
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:34 pm

Re: A mystery of hose attachment

Postby Zachos » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:04 am

When I wear my doublet like this, I tie the sleeves behind my back to keep them off the floor. It could be a sleeveless doublet though, as they did all sorts of strange things in Italy, and this image screams Italian to me.


Slowly realizing just how far is still to go.

Marcus Woodhouse
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Re: A mystery of hose attachment

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:35 am

What iz dis thing you call strange?


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

User avatar
gregory23b
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:46 pm
Location: Gyppeswyk, Suffolk

Re: A mystery of hose attachment

Postby gregory23b » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:32 pm

this one gives a clearer view.

St John altarpiece Van der Weyden


Zach, the OP image is Flemish, although the presence of the Giornata in the man at the back looks very Italian, not surprising really, as the Flemish painters did have connections with Italy and the rest of europe.
Attachments
St-John-Altarpiece-$28detail-1$29-1455-60.jpg


middle english dictionary

Isabela on G23b "...somehow more approachable in real life"

http://medievalcolours.blogspot.com

"I know my place." Alice the Huswyf


Return to “Costumes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests