Cotton Velvet
Moderator: Moderators
Cotton Velvet
Cotton Velvet - Does anyone have any evidence for it, particularly in the 14th century. I've always thought it was a re-enactorism but a friend of mine swears blind he has seen evidence for it somewhere. Has anyone else come across any evidence fr it's existence in the medieval period and where, 'cos I've searched and searched and not found any.
- lucy the tudor
- Post Knight
- Posts: 1984
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:57 am
- Location: Lancashire
- Contact:
- Merlon.
- Post Centurion
- Posts: 600
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:31 pm
- Location: under a pile of cables in a server room
Oh dear, are the cotton wars going to break out again?
The earliest reference to actual cotton velvet that I know of is 1795.
Even if your friend has found an earlier reference to "cotton velvet" how do you know refers to velvet made with fibre from the cotton plant?
afterall one of the meanings of the word cotton is -
Cotton: Of cloth, etc.: To form or take on a nap, to rise with a nap
So the phrase cotton velvet can actually mean the manufacture of velvet not the material its made from.
The earliest reference to actual cotton velvet that I know of is 1795.
Even if your friend has found an earlier reference to "cotton velvet" how do you know refers to velvet made with fibre from the cotton plant?
afterall one of the meanings of the word cotton is -
Cotton: Of cloth, etc.: To form or take on a nap, to rise with a nap
So the phrase cotton velvet can actually mean the manufacture of velvet not the material its made from.
- lucy the tudor
- Post Knight
- Posts: 1984
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:57 am
- Location: Lancashire
- Contact:
I'm afraid I don't really see the point of using cotton velvet as a substitute in costuming as it looks nothing like silk velvet. Also affordable silk velvet can be found if you look hard enough. I have some that I bought at about £30 a yard and it is 100% silk, not the silk ground/viscose pile often sold as silk velvet. I'm familiar with the whole medieval Coton not really necessarily being cotton thing and I know the person who believes in the existence of medieval cotton velvet does too so that is why I thought I'd see if anyone else had any light to shed on the matter. I don't think it is appropriate for medieval re-enactment but I am quite happy to be wrong if there is any evidence to be had.
Not all modern silk velvets look or feel like the original. And not all cotton velvets are heavy - depends where you look for either. Depending on the quality some cotton velvets can look like some of the silk I've seen. I'd love to know where you find 100% silk velvet at that price - I've been looking for years and my suppliers all admit to their silk having a silk warp and a rayon weft - about 18% silk, in any case.Xioumi wrote:I'm afraid I don't really see the point of using cotton velvet as a substitute in costuming as it looks nothing like silk velvet. Also affordable silk velvet can be found if you look hard enough. I have some that I bought at about £30 a yard and it is 100% silk, not the silk ground/viscose pile often sold as silk velvet.
S.
It was from a supplier in Germany I think. It only came in white so you could dye it yourself (haven't been brave enough to do that yet!). A friend ordered a bolt and a number of us divvied it up. I will get the supplier info for you as soon as I can (ie, not at work).
I wasn't really intending on starting a debate on whether or not cotton velvet should be used in re-enactment. I have my own opinions on that
and unless I can find some evidence that it really and truly existed those opinions aren't likely to change, but I was curious to know if anyone else had come across a reference for it somewhere.
I wasn't really intending on starting a debate on whether or not cotton velvet should be used in re-enactment. I have my own opinions on that

Thank you, although I am not up to dyeing fabric but I know a man who can, I think.Xioumi wrote:It was from a supplier in Germany I think. It only came in white so you could dye it yourself (haven't been brave enough to do that yet!). A friend ordered a bolt and a number of us divvied it up. I will get the supplier info for you as soon as I can (ie, not at work).
I am not in the "authentic" ranks of makers - my customers are happy with what I can supply, with the knowledge that the fabric may not be "period correct." However, I am always interested in getting nearer to the "right" thing.
S.
- lucy the tudor
- Post Knight
- Posts: 1984
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:57 am
- Location: Lancashire
- Contact:
That's why "I" won't do it - apart from having a washing machine that has been dead for 12 weeks, and the company seems incapable of mending it. But the man I know does a lovely job, all the time - so maybe...........lucy the tudor wrote:I would tend to go for professional dying if you can, silk that I have died before either goes perfect or really blotchy, about 50/50 of the times I've done it. £30 a meter is fine if you don't make it blotchy...
Lucy the paranoid.
S.
- nutmeg_bec
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:03 pm
- Location: London
Any word on the German supplier?
The "silk" (20%) velvet I ordered in London last year arrived after a wait of nearly 6 months , and the weight was different to the sample in store: no wonder we have trouble finding out what weight it's "supposed" to be, when it changes from month to month in modern times!
The "silk" (20%) velvet I ordered in London last year arrived after a wait of nearly 6 months , and the weight was different to the sample in store: no wonder we have trouble finding out what weight it's "supposed" to be, when it changes from month to month in modern times!
- Tuppence
- Post Knight
- Posts: 1397
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:20 pm
- Location: chaos-world, west yorks
- Contact:
Am sure there's a seller in the US that does pure silk velvet, but white only - and if I remember correctly, pretty lightweight.
Cotton velvet notlikely in the 14th century, and although as S-cat says, cotton velvet isn't just one weight and type (or for that matter, pile length), it doesn't really look like silk velvet, at a distance or close to.
Cotton velvet notlikely in the 14th century, and although as S-cat says, cotton velvet isn't just one weight and type (or for that matter, pile length), it doesn't really look like silk velvet, at a distance or close to.
"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."
Miss Piggy
RIP Edward the avatar cat.
Miss Piggy
RIP Edward the avatar cat.
- Colin Middleton
- Absolute Wizard
- Posts: 2037
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
- Location: Sheffield
- Contact:
Sorry I haven't replied sooner. I can't be more helpful as to the supplier of the silk velvet I purchaced earlier last year. I bought it through a friend who ordered a roll and according to her the original supplier isn't stocking it at the moment but that may change in the future. I'll let you know as soon as I know any more.
As to Colin's question velvet that is a silk pile with a linen ground doesn't seem to be that uncommon. Of the extant samples I have seen and can recall they have been patterned, but there are certainly pictures that suggest a velvet garment without a pattern through the fabric.
As to Colin's question velvet that is a silk pile with a linen ground doesn't seem to be that uncommon. Of the extant samples I have seen and can recall they have been patterned, but there are certainly pictures that suggest a velvet garment without a pattern through the fabric.