Prestonpans 21/22 September 2007
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- Tod
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Prestonpans 21/22 September 2007
The original of this posting has been moved to the Re-enactors wanted section.
Last edited by Tod on Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- bonnieprincecharlie
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By Hanoverians, naturally, the organisers are referring to all those troops loyal to the House of Hanover, as distinct from the House of Stuart, rather than geographical/national distinctions.
Apologies if any misunderstanding has been read into that, but it is a reasonably well acknowledged form of distinction for ease of expression.
Apologies if any misunderstanding has been read into that, but it is a reasonably well acknowledged form of distinction for ease of expression.
Arran P Johnston
'Bonnie Prince Charlie'
Charles Edward Stuart Society
The Earl of Loudoun's Regiment of Foote
Glenbucket's Regiment
The Antonine Guard
Alan Breck Stewart Volunteers
'Bonnie Prince Charlie'
Charles Edward Stuart Society
The Earl of Loudoun's Regiment of Foote
Glenbucket's Regiment
The Antonine Guard
Alan Breck Stewart Volunteers
Its a well known expression and simply put both insulting and wrong
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.
- bonnieprincecharlie
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Re-iterated apologies on behalf of any organisers who may have used the term. It need be considered no more of an insult than the word Jacobite, with nothing more to it than a distinction between divided loyalties in a civil war.
The Prestonpans event promises to be a very good one, un-partisan, commemorating both the importance of the Stuart victory there, and the death of local personality Colonel Gardiner who lost his life fighting for the Government. The organising Trust plays an important role in the local community, and its goals are admirable.
If there are red-coat reenactors other than those currently signed up, who would like to attend, they will certainly be welcome and are encouraged to be in touch with the organisers.
Many thanks
The Prestonpans event promises to be a very good one, un-partisan, commemorating both the importance of the Stuart victory there, and the death of local personality Colonel Gardiner who lost his life fighting for the Government. The organising Trust plays an important role in the local community, and its goals are admirable.
If there are red-coat reenactors other than those currently signed up, who would like to attend, they will certainly be welcome and are encouraged to be in touch with the organisers.
Many thanks
Arran P Johnston
'Bonnie Prince Charlie'
Charles Edward Stuart Society
The Earl of Loudoun's Regiment of Foote
Glenbucket's Regiment
The Antonine Guard
Alan Breck Stewart Volunteers
'Bonnie Prince Charlie'
Charles Edward Stuart Society
The Earl of Loudoun's Regiment of Foote
Glenbucket's Regiment
The Antonine Guard
Alan Breck Stewart Volunteers
- Tod
- Absolute Wizard
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No offence lads but I've reposted on the re-enactors wanted page. I have spoken to the organisers about using the description Hanoverians in order to get that put right on both the web site and the publicity.
The fact is that there were no Hanoverians involved in the '45 at all. The Hanovarian army was in Europe fighting another war. They of coarse are what we would now describe as Germans. The armies that faced the Jacobites were of coarse British, and were the British Army. Hence British Redcoat.
The Hanoverian term was brought in by the authors in the Victorian period when the whole '45 was some what romanticised. To use the term British would at that time have taken away some of the glory of the victorious army that had fought against Napoleon. It seems to me that the authors knew this and therefor had to find a "name" for an army that in their eyes had carried out acts that they considered wrong.
At the moment I'm reading a French book translated into English about BPC and it will be interesting to see what term they use for the army that faced the Jacobites.
The use of the word Jacobite at the time of the '45 and now is an accurate description of the followers of the house of Stuart which of coarse was descended from James. A very different thing from the house of Brunswick and Lüneburg, although I was told that the Jacobites called the British soldiers Brunswickers - I can find no reference to this.
When I was in Hanover a couple of years ago I saw a painting of George II reviewing the Hanovarian Army in Hanover, interestingly the uniforms and coat colours were the same but the obvious difference was that nearly all the soldiers had moustaches.
The truth is that the '45 was civil war, its motives being purely to put James back on the throne. What ever way it is put it was the British against the British, and yes I realise that there was some Hessians, Dutch, French, etc involved in small numbers but the 99% of all both armies was British even if some of them wore the uniform of France (on the Jacobite side ).
The fact is that there were no Hanoverians involved in the '45 at all. The Hanovarian army was in Europe fighting another war. They of coarse are what we would now describe as Germans. The armies that faced the Jacobites were of coarse British, and were the British Army. Hence British Redcoat.
The Hanoverian term was brought in by the authors in the Victorian period when the whole '45 was some what romanticised. To use the term British would at that time have taken away some of the glory of the victorious army that had fought against Napoleon. It seems to me that the authors knew this and therefor had to find a "name" for an army that in their eyes had carried out acts that they considered wrong.
At the moment I'm reading a French book translated into English about BPC and it will be interesting to see what term they use for the army that faced the Jacobites.
The use of the word Jacobite at the time of the '45 and now is an accurate description of the followers of the house of Stuart which of coarse was descended from James. A very different thing from the house of Brunswick and Lüneburg, although I was told that the Jacobites called the British soldiers Brunswickers - I can find no reference to this.
When I was in Hanover a couple of years ago I saw a painting of George II reviewing the Hanovarian Army in Hanover, interestingly the uniforms and coat colours were the same but the obvious difference was that nearly all the soldiers had moustaches.
The truth is that the '45 was civil war, its motives being purely to put James back on the throne. What ever way it is put it was the British against the British, and yes I realise that there was some Hessians, Dutch, French, etc involved in small numbers but the 99% of all both armies was British even if some of them wore the uniform of France (on the Jacobite side ).
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- bonnieprincecharlie
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- Andy R
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I thought there was some Hessian involvement in Perthshire in early '46?
Stuart Orme brought this up several years ago...
Stuart Orme brought this up several years ago...
Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die
http://www.16ld.org
http://www.16ld.org
A few excerpts from the Battle of Prestonpans website (http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... fault.aspx) which is looking pretty good. Posted here to try and split off from the Gunpowdermills thread.
In the battle media section a video from 1995
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... audio.html
(http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... audio.html)
And a bit about the 77th Highlanders from the Czech Republic
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1928
(http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1928)
MP
In the battle media section a video from 1995
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... audio.html
(http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... audio.html)
And a bit about the 77th Highlanders from the Czech Republic
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1928
(http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1928)
MP
Pulteney's Regiment
'We're from the Government, we're here to help'
http://www.13thfoot.co.uk or http://www.facebook.com/LaceWars
'The next best thing to knowing something is knowing where to find it'
'We're from the Government, we're here to help'
http://www.13thfoot.co.uk or http://www.facebook.com/LaceWars
'The next best thing to knowing something is knowing where to find it'
- bonnieprincecharlie
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Lots of photos now appearing on Heritage Trust web-site of all the aspects of this event.
I think I've missed being in any of them.....probably due to my unfortunate habit of being a big ugly b*gger
Skirmish
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1956
Taking Cockenzie House and March
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1957
Afternoon
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1955
4 a.m. March
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1941
Cheers
Neil
I think I've missed being in any of them.....probably due to my unfortunate habit of being a big ugly b*gger
Skirmish
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1956
Taking Cockenzie House and March
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1957
Afternoon
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1955
4 a.m. March
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1941
Cheers
Neil
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- Andy R
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Hi Neil,
So when are they looking at doing another one?
Cheers,
Andy
So when are they looking at doing another one?
Cheers,
Andy
Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die
http://www.16ld.org
http://www.16ld.org
- Tod
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Andy the clue is in the date 

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- Andy R
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Tod wrote:Andy the clue is in the date
Only if they do it then..!
Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die
http://www.16ld.org
http://www.16ld.org
- Henrik Bjoern Boegh
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Neil Johnston wrote:I think I've missed being in any of them.....probably due to my unfortunate habit of being a big ugly b*gger
Or might it have been because you were wearing your lowland kit?

Thanks for the links!
I somewhat figured Gardiner to die by the sword rather than a durk...
Cheers,
Henrik
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Hi Guys
All set for same time next year, I think, or nearest weekend to 21st September anyway. There is a meeting of the Trust in October so will probably hear more after that.
Hi Henrik
I thought Gardiner might have got a wallop with a Lochaber myself but the guy doing the "killing" was keen to use a dirk.
Maybe the Lowland kit was the factor in my lack of starring role right enough, I hadn't thought of that.....bloody Highlanders!!!!
Either that or since Arran was in lots of photos in his BPC kit, which is substantially European, I was actually right about the reason first time.
Cheers
Neil
All set for same time next year, I think, or nearest weekend to 21st September anyway. There is a meeting of the Trust in October so will probably hear more after that.
Hi Henrik
I thought Gardiner might have got a wallop with a Lochaber myself but the guy doing the "killing" was keen to use a dirk.
Maybe the Lowland kit was the factor in my lack of starring role right enough, I hadn't thought of that.....bloody Highlanders!!!!

Either that or since Arran was in lots of photos in his BPC kit, which is substantially European, I was actually right about the reason first time.
Cheers
Neil
GARG'N UAIR DHUISGEAR
- bonnieprincecharlie
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Neil,
first time i have ever been called 'substantially European'!
I'm sure your absence from the pictures was nothing personal - don't let it worry you: we both know most of the regiment is jealous of the scale of your wardrobe!
And frankly, I don't blame the good Colonel for demurring from facing a lochaber!
first time i have ever been called 'substantially European'!
I'm sure your absence from the pictures was nothing personal - don't let it worry you: we both know most of the regiment is jealous of the scale of your wardrobe!
And frankly, I don't blame the good Colonel for demurring from facing a lochaber!
Arran P Johnston
'Bonnie Prince Charlie'
Charles Edward Stuart Society
The Earl of Loudoun's Regiment of Foote
Glenbucket's Regiment
The Antonine Guard
Alan Breck Stewart Volunteers
'Bonnie Prince Charlie'
Charles Edward Stuart Society
The Earl of Loudoun's Regiment of Foote
Glenbucket's Regiment
The Antonine Guard
Alan Breck Stewart Volunteers
-
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- Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 9:17 am
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Ah Arran
Thanks for the compliment
Sorry, "substantially European" does sound rather strange, it wasn't personal.........but I suppose if anyone could claim to be, then BPC could probably claim to be be.... born in Italy to British and Polish parents with any number of nationalities of grandparents
I think your own wardrobe is fairly substantial as I recall too
..........and as for Tod!!!!!!!!
See you soon
Cheers
Neil
Thanks for the compliment

Sorry, "substantially European" does sound rather strange, it wasn't personal.........but I suppose if anyone could claim to be, then BPC could probably claim to be be.... born in Italy to British and Polish parents with any number of nationalities of grandparents
I think your own wardrobe is fairly substantial as I recall too

..........and as for Tod!!!!!!!!
See you soon
Cheers
Neil
GARG'N UAIR DHUISGEAR
- Tod
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Ok so I had to put up another wardrobe rail for the kit................ 

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