Prestonpans 21/22 September 2007

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Tod
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Prestonpans 21/22 September 2007

Postby Tod » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:04 pm

The original of this posting has been moved to the Re-enactors wanted section.
Last edited by Tod on Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Gerry
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Postby Gerry » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:27 pm

Unfortunately I have a British redcoat uniform, they appear to be looking for Hanoverians ie Germans.


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Postby bonnieprincecharlie » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:06 pm

By Hanoverians, naturally, the organisers are referring to all those troops loyal to the House of Hanover, as distinct from the House of Stuart, rather than geographical/national distinctions.

Apologies if any misunderstanding has been read into that, but it is a reasonably well acknowledged form of distinction for ease of expression.


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Postby Nigel » Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:53 am

Its a well known expression and simply put both insulting and wrong


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby bonnieprincecharlie » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:22 am

Re-iterated apologies on behalf of any organisers who may have used the term. It need be considered no more of an insult than the word Jacobite, with nothing more to it than a distinction between divided loyalties in a civil war.

The Prestonpans event promises to be a very good one, un-partisan, commemorating both the importance of the Stuart victory there, and the death of local personality Colonel Gardiner who lost his life fighting for the Government. The organising Trust plays an important role in the local community, and its goals are admirable.

If there are red-coat reenactors other than those currently signed up, who would like to attend, they will certainly be welcome and are encouraged to be in touch with the organisers.

Many thanks


Arran P Johnston
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Glenbucket's Regiment
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Postby Tod » Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:01 pm

No offence lads but I've reposted on the re-enactors wanted page. I have spoken to the organisers about using the description Hanoverians in order to get that put right on both the web site and the publicity.

The fact is that there were no Hanoverians involved in the '45 at all. The Hanovarian army was in Europe fighting another war. They of coarse are what we would now describe as Germans. The armies that faced the Jacobites were of coarse British, and were the British Army. Hence British Redcoat.

The Hanoverian term was brought in by the authors in the Victorian period when the whole '45 was some what romanticised. To use the term British would at that time have taken away some of the glory of the victorious army that had fought against Napoleon. It seems to me that the authors knew this and therefor had to find a "name" for an army that in their eyes had carried out acts that they considered wrong.
At the moment I'm reading a French book translated into English about BPC and it will be interesting to see what term they use for the army that faced the Jacobites.

The use of the word Jacobite at the time of the '45 and now is an accurate description of the followers of the house of Stuart which of coarse was descended from James. A very different thing from the house of Brunswick and Lüneburg, although I was told that the Jacobites called the British soldiers Brunswickers - I can find no reference to this.

When I was in Hanover a couple of years ago I saw a painting of George II reviewing the Hanovarian Army in Hanover, interestingly the uniforms and coat colours were the same but the obvious difference was that nearly all the soldiers had moustaches.

The truth is that the '45 was civil war, its motives being purely to put James back on the throne. What ever way it is put it was the British against the British, and yes I realise that there was some Hessians, Dutch, French, etc involved in small numbers but the 99% of all both armies was British even if some of them wore the uniform of France (on the Jacobite side ).



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Postby bonnieprincecharlie » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:34 pm

Well said Tod, no disagreement from me on any of that.


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Postby m300572 » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:39 am

Having just ploughed my way through Duffy's recent book on the '45, most of the foreign troops (Dutch etc) either arrived too late to be involved or were posted to areas of the country where they were used as garrison troops and police.


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Postby Andy R » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:58 am

I thought there was some Hessian involvement in Perthshire in early '46?

Stuart Orme brought this up several years ago...


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Postby Mark P. » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:03 am

A few excerpts from the Battle of Prestonpans website (http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... fault.aspx) which is looking pretty good. Posted here to try and split off from the Gunpowdermills thread.

In the battle media section a video from 1995
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... audio.html
(http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... audio.html)

And a bit about the 77th Highlanders from the Czech Republic
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1928
(http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1928)

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Postby bonnieprincecharlie » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:34 pm

Some images from the night march in there too - looking good.


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Postby Neil Johnston » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:54 am

Lots of photos now appearing on Heritage Trust web-site of all the aspects of this event.
I think I've missed being in any of them.....probably due to my unfortunate habit of being a big ugly b*gger

Skirmish
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1956

Taking Cockenzie House and March
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1957

Afternoon
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1955

4 a.m. March
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1941

Cheers
Neil


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Andy R
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Postby Andy R » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:21 am

Hi Neil,

So when are they looking at doing another one?


Cheers,
Andy


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Postby Tod » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:46 am

Andy the clue is in the date :roll:



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Postby Andy R » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:49 am

Tod wrote:Andy the clue is in the date :roll:


Only if they do it then..!


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:11 am

Neil Johnston wrote:I think I've missed being in any of them.....probably due to my unfortunate habit of being a big ugly b*gger


Or might it have been because you were wearing your lowland kit? :roll:

Thanks for the links!
I somewhat figured Gardiner to die by the sword rather than a durk...

Cheers,
Henrik


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Postby Neil Johnston » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:15 pm

Hi Guys
All set for same time next year, I think, or nearest weekend to 21st September anyway. There is a meeting of the Trust in October so will probably hear more after that.

Hi Henrik
I thought Gardiner might have got a wallop with a Lochaber myself but the guy doing the "killing" was keen to use a dirk.

Maybe the Lowland kit was the factor in my lack of starring role right enough, I hadn't thought of that.....bloody Highlanders!!!! :lol:
Either that or since Arran was in lots of photos in his BPC kit, which is substantially European, I was actually right about the reason first time.

Cheers
Neil


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Postby bonnieprincecharlie » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:35 pm

Neil,

first time i have ever been called 'substantially European'!

I'm sure your absence from the pictures was nothing personal - don't let it worry you: we both know most of the regiment is jealous of the scale of your wardrobe!

And frankly, I don't blame the good Colonel for demurring from facing a lochaber!


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Glenbucket's Regiment
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Postby Neil Johnston » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:06 am

Ah Arran
Thanks for the compliment :lol:
Sorry, "substantially European" does sound rather strange, it wasn't personal.........but I suppose if anyone could claim to be, then BPC could probably claim to be be.... born in Italy to British and Polish parents with any number of nationalities of grandparents

I think your own wardrobe is fairly substantial as I recall too :wink:
..........and as for Tod!!!!!!!!

See you soon
Cheers
Neil


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Postby Tod » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:17 pm

Ok so I had to put up another wardrobe rail for the kit................ 8)




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