Smokefree law and trading tents

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Lionheart Replicas
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Smokefree law and trading tents

Postby Lionheart Replicas » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:43 am

I posted the following as a reply in F&G but thought that it may be of interest to other traders who may be unsure of whether or not they fall into the new smokefree laws in England.

According to the guidelines published by HM Gov. & sent to all businesses, tents and marquees are specifically included in the legislation if they have a roof and walls with an opening of less than half the total area of the walls – so essentially anything other than an awning or an awning with just a back wall. Only workplaces or places open to the public fall into the new law. So as I see it most trader’s tents would have to be smokefree, but Living History/ display tents which are not entered by the public would not – unless of course they are classed as a workplace! Further to this the law says that you have to display the approved no smoking sign of at least A5 size at the doorways to all smokefree premises (you can download a sign that meets the requirements at smokefreeengland.co.uk/resources).
Worryingly and rather bizarrely, while the fixed penalty for smoking in a smokefree place is just £30, rising to £200 if taken to court, the fixed penalty for not displaying the correct signage is £150 rising to £1000 at court! Plus if you allow (or fail to prevent) smoking, the fine is up to £2500. So it looks as though we’re all policemen now!



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Steve Stocker
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Postby Steve Stocker » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:06 am

I suggest we petition our MP's to alter the legislation so that "Vetatur Fumare"
can be added to the list of legal signs. That wouldn't look so bad in an authentic trading tent. :roll:


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sally
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Postby sally » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:30 am

Ah, but surely as traders as a venue, its the Venue that has to display the sign. So, at a big show, as it is a place of work for a number of people, the event must have the sign then once inside there should be no smoking in any enclosed space.
That was my understanding anyway unless I'm wrong



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Postby Lord High Everything Esle » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:46 am

Or how about a quote from King James Ist's "Counterblast to Tabacco".

"Taking of Tabaco is a custome loathsome to the eye, hateful to the Nose, harmefull to the braine, daungerous to the Lungs, and in the black stinking fume thereof, neerest resembling the horible Stigian smoke of the pit that is bottomless." 1604.


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Postby Lionheart Replicas » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:30 pm

I don’t think that you would get away with that one Sally. As most traders’ tents would be classed as either public places or workplaces, then the law says that the person who manages or controls premises that the law applies to is responsible for applying the law and displaying the signs. In any case the law says that every entrance to a smokefree area has to have a sign, which must mean that in the case of a large event where the public are going in and out of smokefree areas then each entrance to a smokefree area (i.e. each trader’s tent) has to display the signage.
Steve may have a good point, as the law only says that the sign must be of at least A5 size; display the international no smoking symbol of at least 70mm in diameter, and “carry the following words in characters that can be easily read” ‘No smoking. It is against the law to smoke in these premises’. Now, I can’t see where it says that it must be written in English, so you might just get away with Latin, especially if you could convince the Judge that it’s your first language!



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nathan
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Postby nathan » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:36 pm

What says the NMTF (historic traders branch) as i'm sure this is best adressed to them.


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Postby Tuppence » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:25 am

strikes me a a grey area that's open to interpretation, so as with all those things, better to comply than get caught by over zealous twit


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Postby Type16 » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:57 am

Ahhhhhhhhhhh......... but aren't you also suppose to have a 'designated area' for smoking workers -- sheltered but open air? :D


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Postby Martin Cowley » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:41 pm

i had to have one of the new signs in my tent cos we were selling mead, though anyone smoking in my tent full of food always gets told to leave anyway :D , not such a prob for us cos most of the stuff is in plastic but it would really ruin the ambience of some other traders tents who look aufenty though, but then what costumier wants their the stuff they have made smelling of old smoke anyway lol :)



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Postby sally » Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:04 pm

Hmm, maybe we need someone like Jorge to do a woodcut on aufenti-paper, hand tinted if the symbol needs to be red (does it?) with the wording in a suitable style.



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Postby Martin Cowley » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:30 pm

soz bABE WONT WORK (b**ger CAPS) YOU HAve to have the ioffiial flirer



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Postby Lionheart Replicas » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:33 am

The regulations do in fact allow for you to design your own signs as they actually say “…you are welcome to design and print your own no-smoking signs as long as they meet the minimum requirements”.

All the HM Gov. guidelines say is that the signs must be –
“a minimum of A5 in area: Display the international no-smoking symbol at least 70mm in diameter: Carry the following words in characters that can be easily read – No smoking. It is against the law to smoke in these premises”

You are allowed to personalise your sign by changing the words ‘these premises’ to ‘this tent’ or whatever is appropriate for your premises. The ‘international no smoking symbol’ is a circular red border with diagonal line across a black cigarette (downloadable at smokefreeengland.co.uk).

As long as your sign meets those requirements then you appear to have the freedom to design your own using tinted paper, ‘olde English’ fonts etc, etc. Strangely enough the regulations don’t seem to mention woodcut printing so I guess that it must be ok!



Martin Cowley

Postby Martin Cowley » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:02 pm

dont know about tents but i have a friend who runs a cafe in wales he had many" no smoking signs", always been a no smoking cafe and he bought his signs from macro, on his coucil inspection report he got a "non conformantion to regulations "typa thing on his report for not using the new official ones, so unless your really surebe careful :?



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Pete the Pong
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Postby Pete the Pong » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:10 am

It's a difficult one, but the regulations for us are
tents and marquees are specifically included in the legislation if they have a roof and walls with an opening of less than half the total area of the walls
.
However, in practise I've always noticed that for most people unless the weather is really bad, the TRADING areas of tents (as opposed to the private living quarters) are usually open on three sides anyway. As so often happens we fall into a grey area, but my personal (not official!!!) view is that it is very unlikely any trading standards officer is going to risk taking on a massive court case over this, which they almost cetainly would lose


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Smoking in tents

Postby Dragons Cache » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:37 am

One simple question.
What about insence? We burn it all the time, and it gives off more smoke than the odd ciggy.
We are fast becoming a great granny state not just a nanny one.


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Pete the Pong
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Re: Smoking in tents

Postby Pete the Pong » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:37 am

Dragons Cache wrote:One simple question.
What about insence? We burn it all the time, and it gives off more smoke than the odd ciggy.
We are fast becoming a great granny state not just a nanny one.

One simple answer. It' perfectly legal. See http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldhansrd/vo060420/text/60420-34.htm
The ban prohibits smoking in public places (ie in the sense of "put it in your pipe and smoke it" smoking), not the creation of any sort of smoke by any other means.


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Re: Smoking in tents

Postby Lord High Everything Esle » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:21 am

Pete the Pong wrote:
Dragons Cache wrote:One simple question.
What about insence? We burn it all the time, and it gives off more smoke than the odd ciggy.
We are fast becoming a great granny state not just a nanny one.

One simple answer. It' perfectly legal. See http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldhansrd/vo060420/text/60420-34.htm
The ban prohibits smoking in public places (ie in the sense of "put it in your pipe and smoke it" smoking), not the creation of any sort of smoke by any other means.


No doubt that contains a lot of Yorkshire common sense.

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