Chess in circa 900AD?

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Chess in circa 900AD?

Postby Random Mumblings » Tue May 15, 2007 7:33 am

Could chess have been played in 10th Century Britain? Found this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2155916.stm which indicates it might.




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PaulMurphy
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Postby PaulMurphy » Tue May 15, 2007 9:32 am

Unlikely but not entirely impossible, but the evidence is both scant and distant. The games which were definitely known to be around at that time (nine mens morris, tafl, and fox and geese, to name a few) have very much more evidence for their existence, and so it is unlikely that any of the UK-based societies would accept it in a LH context.

After all, there have been dirhams found in York and in most Viking settlements in western Europe, but that doesn't mean that the Vikings spoke Arabic.

Paul.


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Postby Random Mumblings » Tue May 15, 2007 1:04 pm

PaulMurphy wrote:Unlikely but not entirely impossible, but the evidence is both scant and distant. The games which were definitely known to be around at that time (nine mens morris, tafl, and fox and geese, to name a few) have very much more evidence for their existence, and so it is unlikely that any of the UK-based societies would accept it in a LH context.

After all, there have been dirhams found in York and in most Viking settlements in western Europe, but that doesn't mean that the Vikings spoke Arabic.

Paul.


Thanks :-) Any idea where I might get a fox and geese board that would pass without me getting told off in a LH encampment?



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Postby Phil the Grips » Tue May 15, 2007 1:40 pm

You'd also have to work out which rules of chess you'd be playing.They varied markedly in the last hundred years- let alone the last few centuries!

One of the adverts on this website sells 'thenty boardgames- click "refresh" til it shows up.


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Postby Phil the Grips » Tue May 15, 2007 2:49 pm



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Postby Random Mumblings » Tue May 15, 2007 3:39 pm

Phil the Grips wrote:Found it-

http://www.gothicgreenoak.co.uk/


Top banana that man. Perfick. Have emailed them to place a little order.



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Postby Malvoisin » Tue May 15, 2007 4:06 pm

This slightly annoys me:
An ivory chess piece, excavated at a Byzantine palace

Ok, so where's the picture?
Professor Richard Hodges said: "We are wondering if it is the king or queen because it has a little cross but we are not sure." The team is now trying to find out exactly which piece it has found.

How do they know it is even from a chess game? A single gaming piece doesn't make it a game of chess. They don't even know what piece it resembles!

I'm not doubting Professor Richard Hodges expertise, but IMO before you re-write the history books be 100% sure! :evil:


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Postby Brendan C » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:55 pm




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Postby WorkMonkey » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:08 pm

Malvoisin wrote:
I'm not doubting Professor Richard Hodges expertise, but IMO before you re-write the history books be 100% sure! :evil:


Surely you can never be 100% sure of anything unless there is an attached note saying "this is definately a chess board, and yes, we were definately playing it the same way you do in the future"

Even if you found a chess board, with all the right pieces, there might have been a completely different set of rules which didn't make it anything like chess. All you can do is make educated guesses, and this man is educated (probably) and making a guess.


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Postby Brendan C » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:17 pm

WorkMonkey wrote:
Malvoisin wrote:
I'm not doubting Professor Richard Hodges expertise, but IMO before you re-write the history books be 100% sure! :evil:


Surely you can never be 100% sure of anything unless there is an attached note saying "this is definately a chess board, and yes, we were definately playing it the same way you do in the future"

Even if you found a chess board, with all the right pieces, there might have been a completely different set of rules which didn't make it anything like chess. All you can do is make educated guesses, and this man is educated (probably) and making a guess.


Have you seen this bloke's bio? Educated does not even come close



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Postby Tuppence » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:40 am

yeah, but wm's right.

no matter how educated you are, you can't know for sure what something is, you can only give your opinion - and one man's is as valid as another's.

oh god - you got me agreeing with the ys now - need shower :lol:


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Postby Brendan C » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:54 am

Tuppence wrote:no matter how educated you are, you can't know for sure what something is, you can only give your opinion - and one man's is as valid as another's.


No arguments from me. Just pointing out that this bloke has a good chance of knowing what he's talking about.



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Postby Dingo8MyBaby » Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:32 pm

Nearer to 1160ad than 900ad ish. The game and pieces were very different to modern chess. Go for a google and look for History of Chess – there was a really good website in the US but it’s vanished. Look also for Byzantine Chess, the very early versions are probably what made it here first.
As a sad observation I just picked up a very nice three players board and set of pieces :lol:




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Postby Malvoisin » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:16 am

None of the early European Chess pieces on *this page* have a cross on top, like modern day ones do. The 8th-10th century ones, found in Spain, France, Italy and Dorset, are almost identical. Even a find from a 11th C *Byzantine ship wreck*has a similar shape!

The site also has a basilica too, something the 5 year old BBC artical fails to mention. Looks like a christian artifact to me.

Has Professor Hodges heard of google I wonder? :twisted:


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Postby Blaz Berlec » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:27 pm

Image

Chess set I made two weeks ago. It is based on various archaeological finds. Hand carved from hazelnut tree.

Here is the 14th century one from England:


Image


Chessmen excavated from river Thames, England, 13th c : bone King, wood King, unidentified (Queen?), Bishop on top. Bishop, bone King side and above view showing the hollow..



Link to earliest European chess pieces:

http://history.chess.free.fr/first-european.htm


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Postby strumpet_hunter » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:14 pm

well then i have a q for you all...
in one of the icelandic saga's the speak of a boardgame, it's
discripes a board on wich you can play the old game with one king
and the new game with 2 kings.
who would that be possible, because the boards are different from eachother hafl 7x7 being the smallest 8x8 for chess...


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Postby strumpet_hunter » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:51 am

found it!!! made it and it works!!

i made a nice 8x8 board and us the lines to play nfal 7x7 on it!!
when i got some pictures i will post them


I shatter Swords and splinter spears,

None stands to Shieldbreaker;

My point's the fount of orphan's tears,

My edge the widowmaker


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