Hand protection...

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Mike Garrett
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Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:50 pm

Barring welding gauntlets, which I imagine still find a place on the field, what cunning and elegant solutions for the defence of digits are people using. Getting back into the hobby after a bit of a hiatus and I've suffered enough broken fingers and thumbs - every single one at least once - thank you (and am in the process of developing some nice arthritis :roll: ).

Photos would be most appreciated.
My hands will be very grateful.



IanS
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby IanS » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:05 pm

All depends on what period in history you are doing?

If medievil you can wear plate gauntlets.

If 17th Cent your stuck with thick gloves.



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Neil of Ormsheim
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Neil of Ormsheim » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:16 pm

From "The Vikings" safety guides........


Safety Gloves

Written by Jim Gilbanks

Safety gloves need to be a minimum of 6 mm thick and are essential for all warriors A high percentage of all accident and injuries occur on the hands and fingers. and wrists

MAKING GLOVES

First or all get a pair of strong gardening or welding gloves (or similar). No motorbike gauntlets please make sure they fit so they come just past the wrist preferably fitting as close to the wrist as is comfortable.

LEATHER COVERED

Attach leather pieces (MIN 6mm thick) to the fingers, thumb and back of hand with twine or strong button thread (light to dark brown in colour). If you have difficulty getting hold of 6 mm leather you can use 2 and 4 mm and these can be stitched or glued together to form the 6 mm. An alternative to this is to place padding – mouse mats or similar, inside the fingers of the gloves, buy a larger size so that you can still move your fingers, and put a suitable covering on the outside to disguise them.

If using undyed leather simply dye to mid to dark brown or use brown boot polish to darken the leather. Ensure the wrist is well covered in thick leather, as the vulnerable wrist bones are prone to injury.

MAIL COVERED

If you prefer to wear ring mail gloves (not square section rings) then follow these instructions. Stitch a minimum thickness of 2 mm leather to the gloves as above then attach the ring mail to the glove using strong thread (as above). Rings can be from 5 mm to 10mm diameter see Ring Mail Guide

IMPORTANT POINT TO REMEMBER:

When it goes wrong, don't throw it in the direction of the window, it will probably break and get you into a lot of trouble.

NOTE: - A ring mail glove will add about 1 lb. to the weight of your hand - and ultimately your sword- This will mean that you will tire quickly, fight less effectively and be more prone to accidents Since mail adds little protection (for the weight), thick leather or padding is recommended.

Amended 14th November 2005


I use two layers of 4mm leather forming a single sheet over the bulk of my hand and wrist, this means that my gloves go into and out of sheild bosses without getting stuck like many gloves made of separate sections do. I also put a split between the first two and second two fingers to allow me to throw combat javelins. The thumbs are covered with a separate sheet, again made from 2 x 4mm layers. The leather is sewn directly to the back/thumb of the glove with stout linen thread and they need repairing once every three or four weeks when, eventually, some bits of the linnen snap.

I have also seen people use 2 layers of carry-mat sewn under a cloth covering or maille covering knitted wool padding. Both these options seem to work quite well to. The carry-mat option is extremely light.


Lurv 'n' Kizzez

Mike Garrett
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:41 pm

IanS wrote:All depends on what period in history you are doing?

If medievil you can wear plate gauntlets.

If 17th Cent your stuck with thick gloves.


Which is why I posed the question in this period specific forum, good sir. :D



Mike Garrett
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:43 pm

Thanks Neil - that's helpful.

Trying to minimise the glove part on the palm and grip of the fingers. Used to be a real pain with some gloves.



IanS
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby IanS » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:07 pm

Senilis Pravus wrote:
IanS wrote:All depends on what period in history you are doing?

If medievil you can wear plate gauntlets.

If 17th Cent your stuck with thick gloves.


Which is why I posed the question in this period specific forum, good sir. :D


:$ D'Oh Sorry forgot which category I was posting in. :wtf:



Mike Garrett
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:42 pm

No worries :thumbup:



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Neil of Ormsheim
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Neil of Ormsheim » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:27 am

Trying to minimise the glove part on the palm and grip of the fingers.


I have used a variety of different dress, driving or gardening gloves. Finding gloves that fit (I have relatively small hands) and are comfortable has always been a bit of a problem. The last gloves I bought were from a stall at the ILHF. They were yellow leather gardenong gloves and are brilliant!


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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:13 pm

Hmm.

Looks like finding the right gloves is the key

Have you tried attaching your leather with artificial sinew, rather than linen thread? Should mean less breakage, but more of an embuggerance to sew initially.

I've got some old sheepskin offcuts with a lot of wool on them that has matted itself into fairly substantial padding. That might look ok.



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Neil of Ormsheim
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Neil of Ormsheim » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:48 pm

Have you tried attaching your leather with artificial sinew, rather than linen thread? Should mean less breakage, but more of an embuggerance to sew initially.

I've got some old sheepskin offcuts with a lot of wool on them that has matted itself into fairly substantial padding. That might look ok.


Never tried the artificial sinew. Sheepskin fleece side down is good but I would put it under a layer of stouter leather as the sheepskin covered gloves I have seem to get sliced or torn more easily than you might expect (not very often, but moreso than cow hide).


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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:58 pm

Articial sinew - or real stuff depending on the Auth. requirements, is damned tough stuff.

I'm toying with the idea of putting some other skills to work and making foam and leather "hands" to look like actual hands (a bit large, obviously) but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort. Do-able, yes, but probably too much work.

Street hockey or paintballing gloves look emminently adaptable also, but I need to see what they're like, esp. on the thumbs. Once had both thumbs broken in the first melee of the first fight of a weekend - not much fun at all.



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Neil of Ormsheim
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Neil of Ormsheim » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:19 pm

Lots of people already use (and praise) the street hokey gloves. Dave Hall from Manaraefn (near you in Wiltshire) swears by them.


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Mike Garrett
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:45 pm

Definitely going to give 'em a go.



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Medicus Matt
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Medicus Matt » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:59 am

Learn to parry with your shield, not your hand? :wink:

I use a pair of these thick leather gloves, dyed with dark tan leather dye and cutting out the whole palm to improve grip and flex.
gloves.jpg


I've got plates made from wax hardened sole leather stitched to the back, one covering the back of the hand and knuckles, one covering the thumb knuckle up to the first joint and one covering the top and inside edge of the index finger. These are the only places I get twotted and then usually only if I'm daft enough to go blade on blade.
I grove the stitch lines first and then use thick linen thread. Doesn't break, doesn't get cut. Doesn't look like you're wearing a mail clad sheep on your hand.

You could always stretch credulity a bit for very early medeival and make a copy of this 6th century Sassanid iron gauntlet. :D
40-2e424304b3.jpg


"I never said that I was here to help."

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kael
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby kael » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:38 am

I use welders gloves backed with hard leather over a sheepskin layer. Very effective and don't cause too many movement problems (apart from very twiddly stuff - but that's ok, i'm not Erol Flyn!)

Pattern by Ork from VME:

Image

Scale is somewhat out of whack on this forum...



Mike Garrett
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:16 pm

Kael - thanks for that could be useful.
Matt - I wonder if I could persuade a Viking group to accept a somewhat lost Sassanid :devil:

It's not me parrying that causes the damage - it's them buggers that thwock your fingers when you're holding a spear or axe or somesuch.

My main gripe with a lot of gloves - especially welding gaunts - is that they just have too much material on the palm and underside of the fingers. I'll take a look at street hockey gloves but I'm thinking a custom solution may be in order.



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Re: Hand protection...

Postby The_Maille_Tailor » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:41 pm

If you're after a stout pair of gloves I make them with a section of sheepskin on the top as padding, with Cap a Pie Maille over the top.

This is all sewn with beeswaxed linen thread, and knotted every 3rd to 4rth link so it doesn't fall off if cut.

Give us a shout if you're still after a pair or want any info.
Cheers!
Gav

Picture of the top of a mitten I made for a customer. They were returned for a repair, where a few solid links had been folded by a hit, but his fingers survived.
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Mike Garrett
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:47 pm

Cheers - I'll bear that in mind.
Good looking glove!



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Re: Hand protection...

Postby The_Maille_Tailor » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:54 pm

Thanks!
They were a standalone pair for a customer who wanted a solid pair for fighting in.

If you have a look at the rest of the gallery, there's a more slimline version for integrating into a full hauberk with integral coif.

All sewn, and tailored to the customer.


http://www.mailletailor.co.uk/ Fitting links into other links for over a decade now. If its maille I can make it fit.

Benedict
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Benedict » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:20 pm

Leather-backed gloves look the part (and do help), but I'd always put foam padding in the fingers inside the glove itself. It can't be seen, and it helps considerably. When I (eventually) replace my current pair of gloves, I'll probably use some old-style mouse-mat (the 4-5mm thick stuff, not this flimsy modern nonsense), which really does offer protection. I'd be inclined to pad the fingers and then do a layer of foam under a layer of 4mm leather on the lines Neil and others have described.

Authenticity-wise, the Vike's view is that gloves are an essential safety feature, so provided they don't look obtrustively modern, we won't look too closely. The main things we pick up on are brightly coloured gardening gloves (there's a very good range in green, the better to blend into the lawn/foliage when you lose one) which can easily be dulled down with a spot of shoe polish.



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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Benedict » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:22 pm

Senilis Pravus wrote:My main gripe with a lot of gloves - especially welding gaunts - is that they just have too much material on the palm and underside of the fingers. I'll take a look at street hockey gloves but I'm thinking a custom solution may be in order.


Wear them for eleven years and the leather will either wear out or be eaten by the armour moths*! That'll leave you with a nice 'natural' grip!

* the same ones that make holes in mail shirts



Mike Garrett
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Re: Hand protection...

Postby Mike Garrett » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:38 pm

Patience is a virtue I possess in fairly small quantity... :D



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Re: Hand protection...

Postby she2dd5 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:59 pm

I chose a pair of pimple palmed riding gloves which fitted well to get maximum grip and flexibility. I then made padding by crocheting sections in extremely thick wool and then covered the lot with fairly thin leather to keep the flexibility. My spare pair have karrimat padding inside a pair of soft but tough mittens. Both types seem to work very well.


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