Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

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OldRatRus
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Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby OldRatRus » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:15 pm

Hi all from Russia.
I'm looking for information about Northamptonshire helmet. I have seen only couple of photos of this helmet through the Internet, no publications or articles about this helmet so far.
http://www.archaeology.org/9711/newsbriefs/saxon.html
Have you heard anything about it? Helmets are rare for the period, so someone may have seen some papers.
who read Wollaston: The 'Pioneer' Burial Meadows, ISource: Current Archaeology, 154, 391-395?



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The Iron Dwarf
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby The Iron Dwarf » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:20 am

welcome to the forum old rat
I am from northamptonshire and wollaston is near me but I did not know about this.
I will mention this to others in this area who may know more.


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nathan
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby nathan » Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:24 am

It's located in the Royal Armouries, you may wish to contact the library there as they will have a list of all available publications on it. From memory there isn't much, structurally it is very similar to the coppergate helm (practically identical underneath the decoration is very very different).

http://www.royalarmouries.org/contact-us

HTH
N


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OldRatRus
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby OldRatRus » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:57 am

I think helmet located in British Nathional Museum http://picasaweb.google.com/styrvinurhr ... 2072679554
I want to make a correct replica of the helmet. To do this you need to know the size of the original helmet, especially its structure. but if you do the photos get is not quite right (



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nathan
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby nathan » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:37 pm

OldRatRus wrote:I think helmet located in British Nathional Museum http://picasaweb.google.com/styrvinurhr ... 2072679554
I want to make a correct replica of the helmet. To do this you need to know the size of the original helmet, especially its structure. but if you do the photos get is not quite right (


Was in the royal armouries last time i saw it in 2008 (those images were from 2004 before the BM redid it's early medieval room), i'm sure somebody from the armouries could confimr that for you.

Regardless of here it currently is I know the Royal Armouries did most of the conservation and they made a 'reproduction' based on what they conserved (Russ Thomas i believe actually did it, i think he lives is Sweden now). They will have the references you are looking for.

Regards
N.


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Gyrthofhwicce
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby Gyrthofhwicce » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:13 am

We recently made one for wayland (badger boy) if you ask nicely he may post a picture of it for you.


Bear Claw Traders, bringing you the finest in Finnish Reindeer skins and utility and banquet knives. AND NOW, lovely shiney helmets

www.bearclawtraders.co.uk


OldRatRus
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby OldRatRus » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:26 am

what kind of information you used when you made the helmet?



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Gyrthofhwicce
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby Gyrthofhwicce » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:20 pm

researched info, pictures etc .


Bear Claw Traders, bringing you the finest in Finnish Reindeer skins and utility and banquet knives. AND NOW, lovely shiney helmets



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Aescwine
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby Aescwine » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:00 pm

I'm from Northamptonshire and a big fan of the Wollaston burial. The helmet was accompanied by 3 iron buckles, an iron knife, 2 copper alloy clothing hooks, a copper alloy bowl, a five bar pattern welded sword, a boulder and an assortment of short iron rods and tubes; some fabric was also preserved in grave. The burial dates from the late 7th century and has all the signs of being a barrow although no ring ditch or quarry for the mound soil was found. The helmet was "ritually killed" at the time of the burial by pushing the nasal bar inwards making unwearable, this was not plough damage. The helmet also has no evidence of a metal (either strips or mail) neck protection but was leather lined and wool padded. The only decoration is the boar crest.

Currently the helmet is on loan from the British Museum to the Royal Armoury (this appears to be a permanent loan as I have never seen it at the BM). It is my understanding that when Pioneer Aggregates allowed the excavation it was on the understanding that the helmet would be housed at Northampton museum but this has never happened.

The burial site is on slightly raised ground just off the Nene flood plain and approximately 250m from a small group of Bronze Age barrows, it is also very near a cross roads of Roman roads. The Nene at this location forms the boundary between two hundreds.


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WorkMonkey3
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby WorkMonkey3 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:44 pm

re: decoration there was also a series of 3 shallow parrallel incised lines that ran around the brow band, and over the lateral bands,



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Aescwine
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby Aescwine » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:20 am

The lines may not be decoration, from the dig and conservators report:

The helmet is plain with no decoration apart from groups of three shallow incised
lines that are scored into the surface along each edge of the lateral bands, the nose
to nape band and the upper edge of the brow band. These lines are possibly
decorative elements to conceal rivet heads or are perhaps to aid in the location of the
rivets.
I Meadows, 2004


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WorkMonkey3
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby WorkMonkey3 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:29 pm

Yeah I've read the report, I'm not sure how they would aid to hide rivet heads though, as it seems the rivets are put through them, so surely the break in the line where the rivet was would emphasise the fact the rivet was there, or indeed how they'd serve as a guide for the rivet holes, it's not hard to drill holes on the edge of something. I'd like to know how deep they are, but the report doesnt specify.



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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby Medicus Matt » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:56 am

WorkMonkey3 wrote:how they'd serve as a guide for the rivet holes, it's not hard to drill holes on the edge of something.


The holes would have been punched, not drilled, and the scribed lines would not only help to stop the initial punch mark from sliding off the curved surface but would also have made it easier to ensure that that they were all in line.

Not saying that's what I think they are, just how the lines would help from a practical point of view.

It's a horrid helmet anyway.


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WorkMonkey3
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby WorkMonkey3 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:18 pm

I likes it, I want one made but the measurements on the report seem to be horridly wrong, either that, or it is HUGE!



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Aescwine
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby Aescwine » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:29 pm

Ian Meadows told me it is HUGE in comparison to Coppergate or Sutton Hoo. I like it too.


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WorkMonkey3
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby WorkMonkey3 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:35 pm

Well there's huge, and then there's HUGE.
Using the measurement rule supplied on the line drawings of the helm, it's something like 750mm from bottom of cheek guard, to top of apex.
750mm is like 75cm.
Which is 3/4's of a meter :\

From the measurement I've taken from within the report, the cheek piece seems to be 110mm high, and the bowl 183mm high, which is 293mm tall.
Call it 300mm, 30cm a foot.
Seems much more logical and not so big.



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Aescwine
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby Aescwine » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:43 pm

hmm, just had a quick look and your right, yet another cock up from Northants Archaeology, I would ignore all the drawings in that doc you will notice that the buckles are labelled up wrong in the grave layout drawing.


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randallmoffett
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Re: Northamptonshire(Pioneer) helmet

Postby randallmoffett » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:01 pm

It is privately owned and was in the British Museum until 2007 or so. Sadly it simply sat in storage at the British Museum for some time before moving up to Leeds. I was actually rather sad when I saw it sitting in a dark storage room in the BM as it is really a neat helmet.

It does indeed now live at the Royal Armouries in their Ancient to Early Medieval area. I got a score of pictures but the light in the room there needs something better than my simple camera and a much better photographer.

To me it is indeed nearly the same as the York Helmet. The major differences are level of decoration and materials for this as well as the simpler method to attach the cheek guard. The nose on the Northamptonshire helmet was intentionally bent when it was deposited.

And yes there is no way the helmet is 3/4 a meter around. Having seen it outside the glass I can say it would fit a fairy normal sized head.

If you do not mind some really, really blurry pictures I can dig mine up from when I was there in 2009 or so.

Randall




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