1 C Romans Interested?

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chrisanson
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1 C Romans Interested?

Postby chrisanson » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:24 pm

There are people out there, without hidden agendas, who want to do what we want to do, so we can't be all wrong.


i have no hidden agenda, what you see is what you get. i will not comment any more

(even if i am interested)
just lost a possible i'm afraid, sorry



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1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Teagirl » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:10 am

I do have one question.

How many people have kit that is entirely made by re-enactors? If you're someone who is interested in history, produces useful items for re-enactors but don't do any yourself, does that mean you're useless and shouldn't even bother? Is it madatory to actually BE a re-enactor to have value to the re-enactment world?


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby nathan » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:05 pm

Teagirl wrote:I do have one question.

How many people have kit that is entirely made by re-enactors? If you're someone who is interested in history, produces useful items for re-enactors but don't do any yourself, does that mean you're useless and shouldn't even bother? Is it madatory to actually BE a re-enactor to have value to the re-enactment world?


Teagirl

You know that's an interesting philosophical question and one worthly of it's own thread perhaps.

On one hand there is real value in somebody who makes stuff we consume understand what we do in it. You only have to look at some of the junk armour from india/china that clearly does not function (arm harnesses that don't bend in the right places) to see why that might be.

On the other hand look at somebody like Vic James. To the best of my knowledge he isn't a re-enactor (though i may well be wrong) and his primary business is the making of modern marquee structures. But i doubt there are many living history encampments in England where his works are not displayed.

Food for thought eh?
N.


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Teagirl » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:24 pm

Definitely food for thought. Any group, especially ones who aspire to be the benchmark for a time period, have to rely on someone to produce the items that will help them achieve it.

Admittedly, our area is beads but it started because of a deep interest in history and the idea that others might like what we've discovered and produced. I agree entirely that having an understanding of what our customers require is extremely important, otherwise we'd just import cheap mass-produced beads and leave it at that.


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:05 am

It is still different to actually being a re-enactor though.
You have a specialisim and are right to sell that in the best manner you can.
I am not a trader and would not try to tell you how to set up shop and go about selling your stuff, and if I did i would not be at all surprised if you or some other trader rightly told me to sod off and mind my own buisness until I knew what I was talking about.
This is effectively what has happened her.
Looking back at no point has Optimo asked anyones opinion on if he is doing the right thing, or how he should run his group yet that has been a constant reponse.
Its his group, if it succedds or fails then it should be down to the efforts of he and his members. If you don't fit the bill or want to join he isn't going to make you.
If an outsider, even a respected member of another group started telling our captain how he should run the Woodvilles then D.R. would be issuing them a much less diplomatic response then the ones Optimo has been giving here. I don't think he has been any more robust then for instance Nigel, Mark or even myself would have been.


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Teagirl » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:52 pm

I was told that I was extraneous because I don't re-enact. This implies that anyone who does not re-enact is useless even if what they make is necessary for a re-enactor to do what they want.

I made no comments about what Optio was trying to achieve, I simply commented (as did others who were not slammed) that questions have been asked and dismissed in a rude and overbearing fashion. If I thought Nige was rude, I'd tell him, and have done. The Rabbit is an experienced historian and living historian who was treated rudely, I took exception to it, as I am permitted to do. Nowhere have I told Optio how to run his group, I have simply asked a question about what the aims of the group were, as someone else accused the ESG only standing around, I was curious as to what they would be doing. Did you see me tell him not to do it? No.

Did you see him tell me to butt out? Yes. As a member of this forum I have as much right to comment as anyone. Yes?


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Teagirl » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:14 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:It is still different to actually being a re-enactor though.


Ok, I'll bite.

As a trader who is in the authentic section of EH shows and the like, I have to
1. Wear historic clothing
2. Have a historic tent
3. Be able to talk knowledgeably about what I do (in a variety of time periods, rather than the luxury of concentrating on a very small, focused slice of time).

Technically, it puts us on the side of Living History as we don't re-enact anything in particular such as a battle, but does it mean that all the people who were in the LH section of the displays weren't as good as re-enactors? We don't do a demo as it's not practical to do so, we have not been able to work out the logistics of beadmaking in situations such as wind/rain/other unsuitable weather conditions, but what we do requires that we meet the same standards as any LH group.

How are we different from what Optio wants? We have to meet the EH standards AND the standards of the LH groups we supply, by giving them information that will help their own efforts.


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Teagirl » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:37 pm

I'm crushed. I'm heartbroken.

I'm bored.

I'll be sure to let everyone else who uses modern tools to produce their wares that they should never consider themselves anything but time-wasters.

Bless.


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:24 pm

Having shared a camp with an "authentic trader" who would have us believe he belonged to a WOTR fed group yet looked more like a character from Mad Max with his sunglasses (which were worn until the second fed commitee member spoke to him and told him to either lose them or p*ss off) I'd go easy on how authentic traders need to be in appearence.
I don't know who you are Teagirl, one of the downsides of using an alias, nor do I really have anything to say with regard to what you look like or sell, as i doubt it has any relevance to my own historical portrayal.
I know some traders who are very well versed on the historical nature of their wares and i also know some who enjoy dipping their toes into re-enactment now and then as well.
I still would not dare tell them how to go about selling their stuff.
Using Nigel (bloody gunhead tractor driver-real soldeirs march into battle like i did) as an example, he runs a group with exacting standards which not all re-enactors could or can meet. No-one is suggesting to him that he should run the group differently, let women cross dress, bend the historical facts to suit PC needs, and if they did he'd tell them to take a running jump.
He'd do this in the blunt manner for which he is reknowned. The original poster is being just as blunt but is judged as being a bad egg because of it. That's wrong and if he was an established poster I've no doubt it would be ignored.
Not knowing you I cannot judge your own historical knowledge but if I was a trader then I suspect that it would be limited to the stuff I was selling. Now that maight mean I'd need to know ablout a range of fashions through the ages, or how coins were minted but a good re-enactor needs to know about that and who was on the throne, why they were fighting, how they fought, what they ate, why women shouldn't be in the camp, how that event led to that consequence.
(Note I said a good re-enactor, a really good one will say I don't know but they might.)


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:29 pm

Teagirl wrote: I'll be sure to let everyone else who uses modern tools to produce their wares that they should never consider themselves anything but time-wasters.

Only if they claim to be fully authentic. There are those who can. There are those who can't. There are those who have no need to make inaccurate claims. There are those who... oh look, a foe button



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Teagirl » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:44 pm

Marcus,

I never questioned the way Optio was organising his group. If you read MY posts, I asked if he were going to be an active group or a static one, and I asked if he was going to answer questions posed to him by others. I never told him how to run his group, you're more than welcome to quote where I have. I did tell him his manner was rude. That's not the same as saying his group was misguided.

If you read MY posts, I never claimed to be totally authentic, I did note that as an 'authentic trader' (please note quote marks as it is a designation that is applied by the shows, etc that we attend) we have to meet many of the criteria of LH displays, including wearing period clothing, having a period-appropriate tent and sell items that have been accepted as period-appropriate. Our display has been considered good enough by EH as well as other venues. Nowhere did I say we WERE doing LH, I said that we're held to the same standards. Yet, Optio has seen fit to attack our business by denigrating it when there has been no reason for him to do so. The beadmaking demonstrations Mike does have been good enough for St Fagan's, the National Museum of Wales, Nottingham University, the International Medieval conference but not for Optio. That's fine, he's entitled to his opinion, but he is not entitled to denigrate our work and dismiss us when we have not done so to him

The website info is at the bottom of my posts. I don't come here to promote our work, I come here to enter into discussions with people about history. I have a number of friends who post here, and they are part of what draws me to this forum.

We don't re-enact, by choice as we don't have the time to commit to a group that they would require. That's not to say that we don't have a deep interest in history. I wasn't aware that it was mandatory to re-enact to have validity, but Optio seems to believe that not being a re-enactor means that a person has no value or can add to any discussion.

As for Optio being blunt, there's blunt and there's rude. My opinion of how he's behaved is, of course, my opinon, but it has been echoed by others independently.


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby chrisanson » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:46 pm

this is all to silly for me



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Teagirl » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:48 pm

It would be silly for me, Chris, but for the slams against our business and the quality of what we do. Oddly, Optio objected to exactly what he's done to us.


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1 C Romans Interested?

Postby chrisanson » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:13 pm

sue you are fueling the fire, its not helping is it? we all know your work and how good it is.



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Teagirl » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:16 pm

There's really nothing else to be said.

People will have to judge in person, I only hope they give us the same sort of leeway Optio seems to have.


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby chrisanson » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:20 pm

Teagirl wrote:There's really nothing else to be said.

People will have to judge in person, I only hope they give us the same sort of leeway Optio seems to have.

and why shouldnt they? the work speaks for its self.



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby guthrie » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:52 pm

{mod}right, thats better, found the posts.{/mod}
Carry on as you were then.




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