1 C Romans Interested?

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Optio
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1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:04 pm

Interested in 1 C Roman Re Enactment? Looking for like minded individuals who would like to combine to make a Contiburnium of Roman Legionaries. So, we need 8 legionaries and a Centurion (although, saying that we may have one of those on the cards already) and we have a Vexilarius and would need a Signifer if possible too. Kit regime will be strict, but rank on the field means nothing in the real world here OK, so it would be a set standard for one and all. If possible we would need to put 2011 aside for training and be looking at events in 2012. Our main aim is for combat formation and combat itself, not going down the total square bashing route, as it looks good, but is mind numbing to do too often. We will have access to artillery, and this would be the basis of the display, with other associated items the Romans were famous for.

I know I'm going to get pointed towards already formed and running Roman groups, but in all honesty, and with the greatest respect, they are not what I'm looking for. I personally know Chris Haynes of the ESG and John Nash of the VicusI repect, and appreciate how their respective groups run, but they dont offer what I think the event scene needs in the aspects I'm viewing it from (not a criticism, it may fall on its *rse, but like a good Roman, lets try it first eh).
So, in a nutshell golden base rules are 1, no long hair, 2, no full sleeve tattoos or facial piercings (by all means remove them for event, but not in kit), 3, no howge guys as you wont fit into the seggy very well, 4, No ladies as the Roman Citizen Army did not employ lady legionaries, hence none here either.

If you are interested and fancy an informal chat please don't hesitate to drop me a PM. Regards Optio.



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squamatus
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby squamatus » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:20 pm

Best of luck with starting up your new Roman group! The more different approaches to presenting the Romans around, the better, as far as I'm concerned!


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latheaxe
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby latheaxe » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:51 pm

Ding Dong... well done for knowing what you want and sticking to it.. :D



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Optio
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:24 pm

Thank you Gentelmen, it would be nice to try and start something with a clear goal in mind and not giving the illusion to prospective members that it would be OK to wend our way towards a vague and distant dream. :)



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Archibald Marston-Biggott
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Archibald Marston-Biggott » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:44 pm

If you weren't so against tattoos and piercings you could go recruiting in gay bars, they tend to be full of average height, slim, short haired men who prefer not to include women in their hobbies.



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby superjay » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:30 pm

Good luck with the new group, shame i have full sleeve tatts but there again you will need an opponent, ave.


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Optio
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:24 pm

Oh my, Mr Biggot, you surely live up to your forum persona, you must be covered in tattoo's and have a face like a portcullis and like flowery curtains in your 'batchelor pad' (ahem), but all these things allowing, you still feel the need to try and bluster your way in. Bravo, but a massive fail I'm afraid :) If I were to frequent the places you have mentioned I suspect I would only find people like yourself, just the kind of thing I am trying my best to avoid.

Each group has to decide what level of authenticity they want to work to, we have decided on this one. If it isn't a level you are happy with that is your choice, I don't see why you need to be such 'a bitch' about it. Remember, authenticity is everything, we cannot bend 'the rules' willy nilly (one for you again there archibald) to suit ourselves or allied hangers on.

However if you are able to show me absolute proof of long haired and heavily tattooed and pierced legionaries (without using wikipedia as a source) I'd be most interested. If you can add evidence of female legionaries in the pay of Rome as citizen soldiers during the first century I would be even more impressed, yes, honestly, really impressed.

However if you are unable to I suggest you return from whence you came.

and thankyou Superjay, LOL most probably meet you at some stage :D



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Kane101 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:55 pm

all though outside my own area by several hundred years and my weight class i do know some people not on this forum that fit your requirements.
there questions are as follows.

1. what area of the UK are you mainly looking to recruit from.
2. are you doing a central kit . as in the group supplies the uniform and armour.
if not.
2b. area you providing a kit list and recommended sellers or do you buy the kit and they buy it off you.
3 have you a web site or external contact list for those wish to en-role.
4. will you require living history type equipment such as tents camp equipment and if so where to get it from.


Like I told my last wife, I says, "Honey, I never drive faster than I can see. Besides that, it's all in the reflexes." Jack BURTON

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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Lady Willows Retinue » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:38 am

I’ve watched this thread going downhill, so thought I would just throw in my own wooden spoon’s worth.

It is a shame that you don’t appear to be addressing what is missing in current Roman groups in you plans – indeed you seem to be magnifying them. The major difference between the Medieval and Roman groups lies in the ability of the former to actually get on with each other, allowing for an appearance of more than a handful of combatants on the field. Also, if you move house & change group to one closer, you don’t become a traitor and can still happily drink with your old group in the beer tent in the future.

You say you want to strive for authenticity but in your first paragraph you show that your group command structure is immediately too heavy, with 4 officers named before you even get around to recruiting your handful of grunts – a ratio of an officer to every 2 ordinary legionaries. You want to move away from block square bashing and be more combat minded, but as Roman legions fought in blocks and not as individual skirmishers, this will not look too authentic with only a contiburnium of 8. Also, with only legionaries, where do your opponents intend to come from? If you want to show skirmishing, then you would need to embrace the diversity of the auxilia, nationes and numeri.

Then, do you intend to stay on the battlefield all day? The advantage of the living history camp allows your men somewhere to legitimately be seen sitting around eating and drinking (prevents collapse from low blood sugar and dehydration). By refusing to accept civilian members you not only deprive yourself of this resource, but also are forgetting that your potential members are often family men with re-enactment being a family activity (unless as the previous post suggests, you only want to recruit single men with no attachments). It is a shame that you do not want to incorporate the civilian side of life, as that also allows you to show the artisans and fabricae – giving you somewhere for your older members to “retire” to when eventually they can no longer run around in seggies (it comes to everyone one day – sometimes even temporarily during bouts of injury). There is nothing wrong with not having the ladies cross dress (or pretending to be some form of celtic warrior princess), but they can fruitfully participate in your events. It may also surprise you to find that behind the scenes they may actually make much of the kit that you boys like to go on field and so happily destroy (you might find that they know more about the kit than you do & just choose not to wear it themselves).

Rant over (feel free to rip this to bits too).

And yes, Kanes practical list also springs to mind – where are you based, who is providing all the kit, etc.



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squamatus
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby squamatus » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:39 am

I'm disappointed to hear that all Roman Groups are apparently obsessed with petty politics and feuding with each other, and pleased to hear that this is unheard of in medieval period groups!

There will be about 5 groups forming a full century at kelmarsh this year, so that's bound to result in pet lips all around! Okay, there will be a few examples of "tunic colour politics" but what do you expect from a bunch of blokes? It's all good fun if you don't get involved. :D

( :$ Okay, I admit it would be far easier to organise 80 centurions led by one ordinary soldier!)

Square bashing is boring, but you try to build a large enough group of authentic Romans & Celts, where the latter aren't just out to smash kit for badness :twisted: , but don't want to get hurt themselves :crazy: . It's tricky! This is why our combat doesn't happen at public shows - it looks daft with only half a dozen people on each side - but it's worth doing as a check on the practicality of our reconstructions, after all there's more to re-enactment than doing shows, isn't there?


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Dan of Britannia » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:31 am

Well i've read this thread with interest too, we do later Roman, and sadly there has been a little bit of inter-group politics creeping in there, it's mostly dealt with now.

It happens in other periods... in fact all periods of re-enactment where more than one person is involved.

Apart from the first person to play 'Adam' at a show I guess :lol:

Well, I originally thought this thread was someone 'known and loved' in many re-enactment periods, then I thought it was a wind-up and was ready to join in the joke :roll: ... now I'm not sure who it is, but it looks genuine.


Whoever you are Optio, good luck, seriously. Anyone that tries to lift a new group off the ground has my admiration, it may not be everyone's cup of tea... but how you do things is up to you, every group has a different approach - hope it works out!


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:56 pm

LWR: I have no comprehension of your first paragraph? What on earth are you on about? There is plenty of cooperation between Roman Groups, it happens all of the time! Just because Roman Re enactment has fewer and smaller groups does not mean anything in itself, there are more medieval groups, and more 'festival & fayre' type events, and not many Roman, so your statement is?

Your second statement is made without any knowledge of the situation we find ourselves in. Yes, we want a Centurian. We have an Optio and we have a vexilarus who is a vexilarus for one reason, he suffers from a form of dispraxia and dyslexia which means he loses his left and right, which makes him marching in rank and file with legionaries a real problem. He is more than aware of this, and as such we created the position for him so that he can at least have an active role within the group. Would you have a suitable suggestion otherwise? And, yes, if we had the request we would welcome a signifer if he were able to do the job and have the correct standard of kit (expensive).

Where do I allude to 'skirmishing' please? Where is the assumption be gathered from that it's not 'Living History'? Where is the statement that it is combat and combat alone or that it is a battlefield scenario? I am unable to find reference to these in my original or subsquent post?

Having to repeat myself for you, it is a military history group, not civilian. If you wish to do civilian roman may I suggest you apply to The Vicus (nice bunch, do civilian and britain) or I believe the V111 have a civilian side too, or are you suggesting that I should change the group because you feel it is wrong?

Re cross dressing, unfortunately a growing number of event organisers are putting in contract that this is now unnacceptable.

It is not a case of having something 'pulled apart' but the tone and manner of some previous posters, and unfortunately yours too, is of an arrogant and belittling nature. If you care so much about this period that you feel you can make a thinly veiled attack on a reasonable request for interested parties, maybe you should form what 'you' think it should be like?

You even assume to suggest that we are incapable of making our own soft kit! This is very insulting in itself, are you suggesting only a woman can sew? I can think of a large number of blokes who would find that statement extremely patronising not to mention inaccurate.

Kane101, just registered, first post? claiming to not do this period? Alarm bells sir, please make your true intentions clear as you are obviously a member of another group, and this is not a very decent way of conducting any type of enquiry is it, dishonesty begets contempt. We are lucky that we have a small membership at present that do not come from one direct area.

For those who are genuinely interested rather than just digging, we are currently based mainly in central to north midlands so training would be in that area. However this may change if membership distribution requires it.

We are very lucky that after much hard work we are able to get our members a decent and to be honest, generous discount on their required items from suppliers. What other new(ish) group supplies full roman armour to it's members please?

Another loaded question sir/madam, I have to pay for my kit, and as such look after it, and that would be an individuals responsibility within the group with their kit. We do supply tunics and scarfs for uniformity, and also pila and scuta, again for uniformity.
Claiming to be 'getting information for others' is, well, sad really, if they can't be bothered to actually register themselves and do a bit off their own backs, are they what a group is looking for?



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Kane101 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:19 pm

sorry if you find the fact that i just joined this forum a problem.
the guys i was talking to don't use these forums and are currently in iron age and celtic reconstruction one is a member of CHES they are ipswich and colchester area but that a moot point.
questions are loaded of course they are load they are questions. i don't do 1cent roman,i hear so many stories of how 1cent sort their own kit some to give a uniform appearance thus club owned there area pages on line of stuff not to buy and i've seen some kit that well i try not to laugh at. i do 5th cent saxon viking and just getting into WW2 british and if my wife has her way Tudor, and if the name kane doesn't help you id me, i'm not some teenager looking take the p*ss i tend to do that directly to people faces. i asked if anyone i knew had your email address got no answer so i had to rejoin this forum to ask directly..

i will point those who asked at this thread and let them ask or pass as they see fit.

as for not being a honest or decent way of conducting enquiries you may be as contempt about as you see fit. i did as i was asked no ill will intended.

me i would like to have joined a group such as yours but i don't fit the requirements maybe if i lose a few stone i might be within your requirements but we can save that to if i ever meet you face to face.


Like I told my last wife, I says, "Honey, I never drive faster than I can see. Besides that, it's all in the reflexes." Jack BURTON

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latheaxe
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby latheaxe » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:58 pm

Where's all this going??...The poor guy posted on here about recruiting for his new group and he is getting slated for it.Optio has set his standards and if thats a problem for some people then the sensible solution is to either ignore the post or do something radical, be a big person and offer him a good luck!...I don't do Roman and i dont' think i know Optio but i can sense some sour grapes here lol...
Optio! good luck mate , i wish you all the best and dont' let them drag you down mate!! :thumbup:



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Archibald Marston-Biggott
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Archibald Marston-Biggott » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:05 pm

@Optio - Sorry for the trolling. I thought you were someone else and thought you might see the humour in the gay bar joke. I seem to have mistaken you for someone else.

Good luck with your group.



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Dax » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:56 pm

Good luck! Recreating 1st Century Roman combat would be something well worth seeing!

Out of interest - who will your guys be fighting?


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Dan of Britannia » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:35 pm

I must admit, when this thread first appeared, quite a few people in Britannia thought it was an elaborate hoax from one of our own, so that accounts for the p*ss taking banter.
It's content was very close to subject matter (women off the battlefield :roll: ) discussed at one of our recent shows in the evening... in fact some thought it was too close to be a co-incidence :roll: especially as you were a new poster. (One or two of our chaps have a repluation for long-game hoaxes & wind-ups, it's what they do, I've been on the recieving end of this a few times :roll: )

But it's obviously genuine and so apologies for any misunderstanding & over-curiosity and once again, good luck mate.


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Conare nullius momenti videri fortasse missilibus careant.

(Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo).

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Optio
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:43 pm

:D We have a centurion and two new legionaries, Yay!

and thanks Latheaxe!



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Dan of Britannia » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:52 pm

That's good news!

Hope to see you guys at a show soon, I think, from what you're saying you'll have the approach that a couple of continental groups do, there's German & Dutch early Roman groups with leather tents, stakes, ballistas & everything set up like a nicely contained marching camp... look forward to seeing it! :)


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Conare nullius momenti videri fortasse missilibus careant.

(Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo).

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Optio
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:03 pm

So anyone who is a new poster on this forum is liable to get trolled by your group members if they are doing anything that involves anything Roman? I registered to a different forum from my usual haunt so as to not seem to be trying to steal members from current groups as that is not something I would like to do or encourage.

While I appeciate genuine wishes I am not particularly impressed by a group attitude that views anything Roman as automatically only focused on them.



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Dan of Britannia » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:30 pm

Well, I have been honest, not only in admitting that some of my lads have probably made an error in seeing you as 'one of them having a laugh', but you'll see that I also post under my own name.

A new poster with a slightly controversial opening post - can often be seen as a wind-up artist, especially a Roman on a largely medieval forum.

Again, wish you luck mate, and as you're going to respond to concilliatory messages with hostility then in the interests of Cal & this forum - probably best that we have no more communication eh!

Once again... good luck.


www.durolitum.co.uk



Conare nullius momenti videri fortasse missilibus careant.

(Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo).

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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby chrisanson » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:16 pm

as a member of Britannia i wish you well, i think groups should work together and help out where ever possible. if i can help in any way please feel free to give me a shout. this is a hobby not politics.



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squamatus
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby squamatus » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:57 am

As a Roman, I have always found this forum to be one of the best run and most open minded. It's not perfect, but that's the nature of Internet forums. I have met lots of interesting people here from different periods and got bookings for shows I would otherwise never have heard of. It's all too easy to write things on forums you wouldn't dream of saying to someones face, but no need to hold grudges into eternity as a result. However if you like that sort of thing, the best way to be insulted is to do anything novel that comes to the notice of the frequenters of RAT forum, which is supposed to be 'open and friendly', etc. I respond to this by not being a member and not visiting that forum. Works for me!


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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:39 pm

Dyspraxic and dyslexic-that's not the army mate that the marines.
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Optio
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:55 pm

We dont have a bath house, but we have a sweat lodge that you're welcome to use :D



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby guthrie » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:19 pm

That is the first time I've seen a troll apologise for a few years now.
Remember that if you have doubts about something, us moderators are available to answer questions and we usually know who is who even when they are trolling.



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Optio
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:01 pm

Thanks Guthrie, I think a number of issues have now been 'ironed out', and I only had to call a friend once! :D



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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:04 pm

Just to go over a few things that may need explaining, as Sqamatus has already stated, I chose to approach this forum as opposed to RAT because it offered another angle to more people. RAT is frequented by people who already do Roman or Greek, and it's a smallish proportion of UK re enactors. In my niavity I though that there may be some people doing other periods who may have considered doing 1C Roman, and as such would be more likely to be one a more period diverse forum such as this.

OK the bar may have been set a bit high, however I (and the others too) feel that if we don't try to set a level of authenticity that is just a bit of a struggle, it won't be as satisfying if it comes off. After all easily attainable goals are never the ones you remember or appreciate.

Although I am still not comfortable with how some people have reacted I am big enough and ugly enough to accept the apologies in the spirit in which they were offered.

Maybe I will accept the advice and only respond to genuine questions, that way the trolls wont get offended.



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Eadseig
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Eadseig » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:34 pm

I thought it was illegal to prevent a woman participating in a society or club on account of her gender? Could a woman sue your group if you refused to let her join and fight as a legionary?
We (The Vicus) once had a similar discussion about ethnic minorities. If a person of Chinese origin asked to join, would you turn them away because the Roman army didn't have Chinese soldiers? Our answer was that the things you can change, you should. Those things you can't change (like gender and race and American accents) don't matter. You should never (in my opinion) refuse a person admission for something they can't change.

Best of luck with your group.

Neil

PS Are you going to have everyone speak only Latin? No one would have spoken recognisable English for another 1000 years after the Romans left.


Non veni pacem mittere, sed gladium

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Optio
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Re: 1 C Romans Interested?

Postby Optio » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:41 pm

If you are a member of The Vicus, and are happy there what would be the crux of your issue?
Let me put this for the final time on this thread, it is a MILITARY SOCIETY which will portray (to start with) a single Contiburnium of Legionaries.

To be frank, and honest, and correct, There were no women in the ranks of Legionaries! Including them 'cross dressing' for political correcness is obstensibly noticable and incorrect when it comes to historical accuracy, plus it could cost the group booking from event organisers. As I have again said before, many are now stipulating there will be 'NO' crossdressing. As a group it would be our duty to 'conform' to this demand (as it is in no way a request). To do otherwise would risk reduced, or in the worst case, no fee and requests to leave the site. Neither are an option for this group, so it is the event organisers you should take your complaints too, as they are the ones who draw up the contracts, pay the invoices and make this hobby viable.

I have heard all of this 'Trotted out before', usually behind the back of a certain Centurion, along with loads of bitchiness about his group. However, I for one would be over the moon, happy as the proverbial two willied dog and cock a hoop if I had a group with the reputation and number of his.

If there are some 'coloured chaps' out there who want to learn to ride and do weapons from horseback training, fantastic, I would give my left knut to have a squad of Numidian Cavalry!




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