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Tuppence
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Postby Tuppence » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:48 pm

William wrote:
guthrie wrote:As for doing things to perfection, reading the MoL book on costume accessories, it seems there were plenty of accessories etc that were not perfect in any way, whether by cheap casting or badly finished.


Whilst this is true, and many items were mass-produced, don't forget that the majority of the dress accessories in the Museum of London are from a medieval rubbish dump. These things have been thrown away, and it's possible that badly cast examples are more likely to have ended up here (and thus been preserved for us), than the finer ones.


yes, but the same thing is found in later periods where things weren't dumped.

and again, in extant medieval garments that are survivals from other locations.

if you can see it, it's well done, if you can't it's terrible seems to be the general rule (i.e. they did thing sjust the way we do now)


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Postby William » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:05 pm

I agree entirely Tuppence, Guthrie was talking about the MoL dress accessories, and I was pointing out that some of these badly cast items may never have been used.

I've seen the insides of plenty of gorgeous Georgian clothes to know that what you're saying is true. Very messy inside, beautiful where it shows.



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Postby Neibelungen » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:08 pm

if you can see it, it's well done, if you can't it's terrible seems to be the general rule


As a general rule it's seems to apply to almost all periods till the domestic sewing machine arrives.

The only exception to that would be the case of personal linens (mainly things that came in for a lot more washing than anything else)

In these you find that the sewing is extremely high all through, even the bits you don't see. It's to do with wear and tear. Better stitching, felled seams etc stops the fabric fraying.



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Postby Tuppence » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:19 pm

true, if you're only looking at the mol finds.

but not strictly true of al extant medieval clothing (like that at canterbury)


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Postby guthrie » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:45 pm

William wrote:
guthrie wrote:As for doing things to perfection, reading the MoL book on costume accessories, it seems there were plenty of accessories etc that were not perfect in any way, whether by cheap casting or badly finished.


Whilst this is true, and many items were mass-produced, don't forget that the majority of the dress accessories in the Museum of London are from a medieval rubbish dump. These things have been thrown away, and it's possible that badly cast examples are more likely to have ended up here (and thus been preserved for us), than the finer ones.


That is definitely correct in many instances, nevetheless, without going through all the finds piece by piece, I suggest that it is possible to overstate the prevalence of poor quality stuff that was dumped.
I suggest this partly because if they were cast badly, the pewterer or copper alloy caster would likely recycle it. Of course on some occaisions it seems they did just dump offcuts and waste material from the manufacturing procedure, and they do at times appear to have dumped half finished items. I have not yet made sense of all the material I have on this subject (and i need more), and it seems that generalisation is dangerous, and tricky.
It does seem that some of them, especially pewter buckles, were cheaper and nastier insofar as they bent out of shape and were then discarded. They might have looked pretty, been very cheap to make and then buy, but were not what we would call quality.




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