Tudor gown lacing?

Making, Pictures, Queries, Resources

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

Hooks work pretty well for the fastening, although these ones cannot be used alternately. I made this kind of dress for "Anne Boleyn", but you can't really see the beads pretending to be pin heads on the left side of the bodice!

Can't seem to post the image - here is the url.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/S ... Boleyn.jpg

(Bess made the coif - it's lovely.)
S
oh my goodness! that dress! i already have it on my computer, i found it on the internet a few years because i loved it so much - i never knew that i would bump into the person involved with it!! *is blown over*

anyway. a lot of info to get through here.. :?
as for your question regarding the why i am making a dress, it was originally because i wanted to, then i found out about kentwell and i was like OOHH!! ME ME ME!! but then i found out that i couldnt go after all my excitement :cry:
so now, i still feel very disheartened, because i will end up with a lovely dress and nowhere to wear it. which makes me feel very depressed due to all the work i am putting into it, but lets not dwell on it for too long or i may well :cry: again.

dont worry about the boning, i havent actually put any in yet, just cut in some holes to slot some in, so thanks for the advice as boning was on my list of things to buy :)

what is fusible interfacing? i really have no idea!! the stuff that i got is a white, thin material that looks just a bit like the fabric version of sugar paper.... lame description i know, but i cant think of any other way to do so!!
thanks again for all your help - will email you re the period bodice sewing method :)
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

myladyswardrobe
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:01 pm
Location: Suffolk
Contact:

Post by myladyswardrobe »

Ah - I thought I'd seen you on a thread somewhere regarding Kentwell. I think you can't go because you can't be anywhere else on a Saturday and thats when the Open Days are? Yes?

There is a gentleman at Kentwell who is head of the Bakery and he doesn't do Kentwell on a Saturday because of this reason. Yet he does come to the Open Days - not sure how he does it but if you like, I could contact him and ask. Would that be helpful?

Regarding costume - it would actually have been risky planning to make a JS gown for Kentwell next year (for arguments sake) because we never ever know what the new "Kentwell year" will be untill November/December!! Don't even have a clue as to whether it will be Elizabethan or Tudor until then!!

The "sugar paper" stuff you say have sounds like fusible interlining. I have to admit to using "Wonder Web" (its a sort of "spider webby" type of "tape" that you put between layers of fabric and then iron. It sticks the fabric together). I view that stuff as the modern alternative to Tudor glue which they did use, however, I don't suggest that someone knew uses it untill they get the authentic construction off pat first - then they know where they can take short cuts.

The full fusible vilene/interlining is not that good - especially for beginners (as per the reason above) and as Tuppence said. It is useful for keeping two layers together that MUSTN'T move at all though.

Suzi (Shadowcat) made the Queen Anne Boleyn Gown, I only made the undercoif (white thing) and sewed some beads on the forepart. I did sew all the jewels on the sleeves of the tunic that Henry VIII wears!! Boy, weren't they heavy! But very pretty!!

I've sent you the period bodice construction method now - hope its useful

Take care
Gentry/Tailor/Needlelace Maker - Kentwell.
www.myladyswardrobe.com

User avatar
Tuppence
Post Knight
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: chaos-world, west yorks
Contact:

Post by Tuppence »

Fusible interfacing comes in several weights (from really flimsy to really stiff), and (usually) in black, white or charcoal grey, AND in woven (looks like cotton), and non-woven (looks a bit like fabric tissue paper).

The real giveaway is that it one side (or both for some types) has very closely set tiny shiny dots all over it (looks a bit like sray from a toothbrush or something). That's the glue.

It does come in handy for some things - especially for very heavy weight fabrics, where the bubbling wouldn't show anyway, but as I said, I wouldn't use it as stick-down stuff all that often.

If the stuff you've got doesn't have the shiny side(s), then it's the sew in kind (which looks exactly the same apart from the glue).

Even if you have got the glue-in stuff, though, you can still use it as
sew-in, just be careful when you're pressing it (the glue is activated by heat).
"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."
Miss Piggy
RIP Edward the avatar cat.

User avatar
Annie the Pedlar
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:05 am
Location: In a close of bluebells in the hamlet of Hors
Contact:

Post by Annie the Pedlar »

Shadowcat,
I wanna go I wanna go.
Have I lost some emails during the move and my BT debacle?
Have you got time to pm me with the time and date?
Annie

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

thanks for the method :)

yes, that is the reason i cant go - but dont worry about getting into contact with anyone, though thanks for the offer :)

i am currently making my mock-up, i dont think its going too well! :? so i am not exactly feeling confident about it right now!!

is it authentically acceptable to make the bodice seperate from the shoulder straps? it would make everything a whole lot easier!
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
Annis
Post Knight
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:59 pm
Location: Here, there, and everywhere!
Contact:

Post by Annis »

I dont think it is....sorry :(
"They call me 'quiet girl', but I'm a riot"

myladyswardrobe
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:01 pm
Location: Suffolk
Contact:

Post by myladyswardrobe »

Hi Lidimy,
i am currently making my mock-up, i dont think its going too well! so i am not exactly feeling confident about it right now!!

is it authentically acceptable to make the bodice seperate from the shoulder straps? it would make everything a whole lot easier!
Not really. Some people have done this but the problem it that you then get a seam at the neckline of the bodice back and front. Though it *ought* to be easier to tighten up, it won't be because there will be more "give" in the strap at the shoulder point. Very quickly after starting to wear the completed gown, the strap will stretch and then flop off your shoulder. Which is VERY irritating! (Been there, done that, got very cross with it!!). :lol:

What you CAN do with your toile though is keep working at it - this is where you make your mistakes and learn from them. Make the toile only without the straps and then add straps to it. THEN once you are happy with the fit, you take the toile apart to its components pattern pieces and recut a new toile with the straps in place at the front and back necklines. The seam then sits on top of the shoulder.

Does that help?

BTW - do you have a dress dummy or are you doing this all on your own?
Gentry/Tailor/Needlelace Maker - Kentwell.
www.myladyswardrobe.com

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

doing it all on my own... makes everything a lot more tricky when you end up chasing your own tail to get a look at your back in the mirror :D though sometimes i do use my pillow as a dummy, but due to the fact it is a feather one it isnt really very accurate!

got my sis to dress up in all my stuff though, she found it all very amusing :P and i finally got a look at what my kirtle really looks like from behind, and was very pleased. :D
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
Annis
Post Knight
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:59 pm
Location: Here, there, and everywhere!
Contact:

Post by Annis »

any pictures? :lol:
"They call me 'quiet girl', but I'm a riot"

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

of what? kirtle + feather pillow? :lol:

it really freaks my sister out, if i put the whole thing onto a coat hanger and chase her round the house with it...


rraaaaarrrr its the pillow monster!!

no pikkies yet as white things never come out very well on my webcam. and its not very impressive either!!
but they will be on their way.
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
Annis
Post Knight
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:59 pm
Location: Here, there, and everywhere!
Contact:

Post by Annis »

of you cossy of course!

*waits patiently*
"They call me 'quiet girl', but I'm a riot"

User avatar
Sophia
Post Centurion
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:46 pm
Location: Camberwell, London
Contact:

Post by Sophia »

Looking forward to seeing the piccies Lidimy :D

Carefull with the feather pillow though - remember the midrash about the Rabbi likening the contents of a feather pillow to all the careless remarks we could make. If they get out they are very difficult to pick up again.

Sophia :D

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

thanks for that sophia :P

very appropriate considering a somewhat important date tomorrow!!
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

KSBIII
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:30 pm

Post by KSBIII »

Hi.

I've been lurking and watching this and feeling a bit green with envy at the enthusiasm and skill shown on this thread.

Anyway, having expressed my lack of knowledge on this I was having a look at a copy of the JS portrait I happened to have here. the point was made earlier that it would be difficult to get the neatness with pinning - but surely if both the pinner and/or the pinee where going through this process a couple of times a day 365 days a year, from childhood...

Don't know what types of pins exist from these times but if the bead was vertical rather than horizontally fixed on the pin they could go down, not in.

Might the dress have hooked boning, like a modern corset or the hooks on lace up boots with the stomacher buttoning on to them?

Sorry, I know nothing but was intrigued.

User avatar
Sophia
Post Centurion
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:46 pm
Location: Camberwell, London
Contact:

Post by Sophia »

Though you would appreciate it Lidimy

Wishing you and your family well over the fast.

Gemar Chatimah Tovah

Sophia :D

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

good fasting to you too, thanks :D

sorry if its already been covered, but in reference to what KSBIII wrote, is the front panel pinned on both sides, being completely detachable, or just on one side, being like a big flap?
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

myladyswardrobe
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:01 pm
Location: Suffolk
Contact:

Post by myladyswardrobe »

Hi Lidimy,
sorry if its already been covered, but in reference to what KSBIII wrote, is the front panel pinned on both sides, being completely detachable, or just on one side, being like a big flap?
Well, yes, thats a question! We really don't know!! Not terribly helpful I know!

The reason we don't know is because of this young lady: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/pemberton.jpg
She has the tiny gold "pins" on the RIGHT HAND side of her bodice. So, it could be said that these styles have the pins on both sides, or on one side depending on the preference of the wearer.

I have a gown similar to the JS one, and its is stitched on the RHS into the seam and hooked up along the LH seam. Both seams are right underneath the arm so don't really get seen unless I lift my arms up (which due to the tightness of the sleeves means not very high at all!).

It would probably help if we had pictures of your bodice - we could then say what needed altering then. A word of warning at using your sister to fit your bodice - if she is slightly different to you in size, then the toile won't fit you. Better for her to fit TO you than the other way round. Get her to take photos of the bodice when its on you.

Best wishes
Gentry/Tailor/Needlelace Maker - Kentwell.
www.myladyswardrobe.com

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

i wasnt too worried about my sister as we are both the same size :)

ok, i will try taking some pictures, but it might not come out very well and my computer is dreadfully fussy about which photos it lets me put up :evil:
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

i put a book in so you could see the neckline, it isnt part of it at all :)
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

myladyswardrobe
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:01 pm
Location: Suffolk
Contact:

Post by myladyswardrobe »

Hi again,

Thanks for posting the piccie - that helps enormously for me (and anyone else who wants to) to suggest ways of helping you out.

Firstly, well done with what you've done so far!

Secondly, I've taken a copy of your piccie and "drawn" all over it! :lol: The Dark red lines are the original shape of your bodice (you can then see the "pattern" clearly).
The thick blue lines give an IDEA of what you need to do to alter you bodice. I'm going to be a bit mean and tell you to make a new toile USING the suggestions I give below but in conjunction with your old toile (pictured below). Once you have the new lines marked on your old toile, cut it all out and apply onto a NEW toile piece remembering to make mirror image for the opposite side (e.g. if you work on your RHS then mirror to the LHS).

Ready to give it a go?? Here goes then:

All the instructions are based on your old toile and should be marked/cut on that toile. Work on ONE half of your toile only (Left or Right hand side) and be aware of where your Centre Back and Centre Front Lines are (mark them in to start with by folding the patterns in half if necessary. The Front already has a Centre Front opening anyway).

1. SIDE Seam placement:
This is the thick line marked "A" on the picture.
On your toile, mark a long line from under arm to waist. This should be careful placed so it is exactly UNDER your arm.

2. WAIST placement:
This is the thick line marked "D".
If you are following the JS gown exactly, it doesn't have a "V" waist. This one is on your waist. However, the pattern does need a very little "V" dip" to ensure it is ON your waist and not above it when worn (remember the fabric has to go "around" your tummy! Humans are not built of straight lines so you need a slight downward curve to the waist here). The shape you have is more later Tudor going into Elizabethan. The BACK and SIDES of the waist must sit exactly ON your waist.

3. ARMHOLE/STRAP placement:
This is the thick line marked "C".
I can see the problem you have with the strap. You need to ADD fabric to make a curve from under your arm into the strap (this applies back and front). On the FRONT strap, I cut this in a curve (hopefully the picture will help here but if not see this link: http://livinghistory.co.uk/homepages/tu ... attern.jpg. This allows for you to pull your strap up very tight on your shoulder as one of the last fitting points.

Also, you then get the neckline to really be very wide as per the portrait.

4. NECKLINE adjustment:
This is the thick line marked "B".
The necklines have a very slight upward curve (which becomes quite pronounced in the later Tudor period - see my bronze gown here:.http://pics.livejournal.com/edmndclotwo ... c/000054fw)
The corners of the neckline almost start just at the armpit/breast point (don't know if that makes sense - see my picture in the link above). The curve of the strap helps to allow for this wide neckline.
The front panels at the present will be your lacing panels. Forget about the over stomacher at this stage - once you have perfected the toile to your size, Tudor dress style and anything else you feel you need to make the perfect dress, you can then add the stomacher in later on!!

OK - I hope that makes it clearer. Would it be possible for you to get pictures of the bodice, front, side and back ON you at all such as the ones I have here of the making of my wedding gown:
Picture:http://livinghistory.co.uk/homepages/tu ... diary.html
If you don't want to show your face then "cut your head" off the pictures as I did.

Of course, I can't easily explain what to do on the back as I can't see it but the do make sure you have a centre back line on it. The Tudor Tailor has a lovely period arrangement of the back of the Tudor gown so again, I recommend you getting that book. It will make all of this seem so much less mysterious!! :P
Attachments
Bodice
Bodice
Gentry/Tailor/Needlelace Maker - Kentwell.
www.myladyswardrobe.com

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

thankyou sooooooooooo much, you dont know how helpful you are, really you dont!!
i was aware of the v-cut on the front, shortening that to make it into a u-shape was on my list of adjustments to make anyway :)

i know that the neckline isnt really wide enough, but i am really worried that the sleeves will slip off my shoulders due to the weight otherwise :( how do you keep them on?

i will try and get a back view too :)
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

myladyswardrobe
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:01 pm
Location: Suffolk
Contact:

Post by myladyswardrobe »

thankyou sooooooooooo much, you dont know how helpful you are, really you dont!!
You are very welcome. Its nice to share costumey goodness!!!

The secret to the straps (which works for me anyway) is as follows:

1. The strap is curved (as in the pattern). This is authentic as Alceger (Spanish tailor in the 1580s) published a book of patterns and this strap shape is on one of the bodice patterns.

2. Make sure the bodice fits you perfectly and can be laced up and THEN you tighten and tighten and tighten those straps on a seam on the top of your shoulder.

TIP - turn the bodice INSIDE OUT and put it on YOU (this is quite important as your sister, however close and similar in size and shape she is to you, will be slightly different to you). Get your sister or someone else to pull tightly on those straps seams. Pull tighter on the NECKLINE side (as opposed to the arm side) of the strap. Ensure its SO TIGHT that its almost uncomfortable to wear to start with.

Be aware that as the straps are tightened that the bodice doesn't move upwards on you. This is why the bodice must fit you carefully and properly before you tighten and complete the straps.

3. The back of your bodice can be cut straight across your back (but quite high) or it can be cut in a shallow but wide "V" shape. The point of the "V" comes to the top of the "bra strap" point.

Thats exactly how I did my bronze dress after NOT doing it on my wedding gown dress.

Once you get the sleeves on as well, tighten those dratted straps again!! :wink:

Take care

Bess
Gentry/Tailor/Needlelace Maker - Kentwell.
www.myladyswardrobe.com

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

oh, thats quite a low v-neck on the back then!! i wasnt aware of that, i made mine quite high as you can probably see on the picture.

'Pull tighter on the NECKLINE side (as opposed to the arm side) of the strap. Ensure its SO TIGHT that its almost uncomfortable to wear to start with.'

how do you mean, i dont quite understand that... :?

also, how on earth do you tighten the straps once the sleeves are on?!

i didnt mean to worry you regarding fitting it on my sister, i only put it on her cos we were bored - all the fitting i have done on myself rather than on her.

as regards where the bodice sits, i will happily take your word for it that it needs to sit properly on the waist before the skirts are attached, but surely the weight of the skirts will pull it down a bit anyway? or am i missing something about the method of attaching the skirt?

thanks again :D
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

KSBIII
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:30 pm

Post by KSBIII »

myladyswardrobe wrote:Hi Lidimy,
sorry if its already been covered, but in reference to what KSBIII wrote, is the front panel pinned on both sides, being completely detachable, or just on one side, being like a big flap?
Well, yes, thats a question! We really don't know!! Not terribly helpful I know!

The reason we don't know is because of this young lady: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/pemberton.jpg
She has the tiny gold "pins" on the RIGHT HAND side of her bodice. So, it could be said that these styles have the pins on both sides, or on one side depending on the preference of the wearer.

I have a gown similar to the JS one, and its is stitched on the RHS into the seam and hooked up along the LH seam. Both seams are right underneath the arm so don't really get seen unless I lift my arms up (which due to the tightness of the sleeves means not very high at all!).
Hi,

It's me again queering the water, but you were all kind enough not to tell me to s*d off earlier...

I've fond memories from an "earlier" life of John Donnes "To his mistress on going to bed"

Now to me the lines-

"Unpin that spangled breast-plate, which you wear
That th'eyes of busy fools may fools may be stopped there:
Unlace your self, for that harmonious chime
Tells me from ypu that now is your bed time."

Suggests the removal of two separate items of clothing. I know this poem is conventionaly dated to a slightly later period (and should, possibly be later still) However, it is unlikely to my mind that women once having discovered the convinience and comfort of making on side a permanent seam would have reverted to pinning both.

The positioning of the fastening in conventional, contemporary portraits does cause a problem you will usually see either a side view if the woman is "saleable" with only one side and the projection of her bust visable, or full face if she isn't in which case fastening is hidden by the slevees or somesuch.

I recently read a book on Arbella, which while it in no way qualifies me to speak on the matter, suggested that clothes at court were extremely expensive and important and I would assume a version in of the "Hello/Posh Spice effect would have been present (YES I know this is latter, bear with me) I would suggest a completely removable centre piece for a dress would be useful a) because you could pawn it, b) because you could re-use it C) because you could remove it, sell the rest of the outfit and reuse all the stuff that made it special in the first place.

I'll go away now.

BTW Sophia which period were you looking for a waist seam in? I may have found a picture with one.

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

"Unpin that spangled breast-plate, which you wear
That th'eyes of busy fools may fools may be stopped there:
Unlace your self, for that harmonious chime
Tells me from ypu that now is your bed time."

Suggests the removal of two separate items of clothing. I know this poem is conventionaly dated to a slightly later period (and should, possibly be later still) However, it is unlikely to my mind that women once having discovered the convinience and comfort of making on side a permanent seam would have reverted to pinning both.

The positioning of the fastening in conventional, contemporary portraits does cause a problem you will usually see either a side view if the woman is "saleable" with only one side and the projection of her bust visable, or full face if she isn't in which case fastening is hidden by the slevees or somesuch.

I recently read a book on Arbella, which while it in no way qualifies me to speak on the matter, suggested that clothes at court were extremely expensive and important and I would assume a version in of the "Hello/Posh Spice effect would have been present (YES I know this is latter, bear with me) I would suggest a completely removable centre piece for a dress would be useful a) because you could pawn it, b) because you could re-use it C) because you could remove it, sell the rest of the outfit and reuse all the stuff that made it special in the first place.
eh, now you've right confused me!! so am i pinning both sides or just one? :?
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
Sophia
Post Centurion
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:46 pm
Location: Camberwell, London
Contact:

Post by Sophia »

KSBIII,

Have plenty of waist seam pictures, just not right period or country. Main sources for our period are Northern Renaissance, i.e. Roger van der Weyden, Hugo van der Goes, etc.

Flemish is about as fas I would go for my inspiration as they had very close trade ties with England at the period (Caxton was the Master of the English Staple in Bruges before he cam back and started his printing business).

Sophia :D

User avatar
Shadowcat
Post Centurion
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:03 am
Location: London

Post by Shadowcat »

Lidimy

If you are pinning it yourself, and you are right handed, pinning on the left side is easier. It is highly unlikely you would have been left handed, as this was very much frowned upon (even when my husband was a child in the 50's) Pinning both sides for yourself could be a problem, as you might pin one side crooked and not realise it. From a purely practical point of view therefore, not necessarily accurate historically, it makes sense to pin one side only, preferably the left.

S.

User avatar
Jenn
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by Jenn »

I would go for a seam one side and hooked on the other you can then pin the hooked side down to get a nicer line (as Bess says). If you follow the alterations that Bess suggests then you should get a more specifically 1530s looking gown - have you got the Tudor tailor yet? (or that still on the list?) as Ninya's explanations of this are really helpful

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

its still on the list, i am doing my work experience in a week so will be spending a lot of time in the city where i can hopefully pick it up!! i really hope it is availible, i put my trust in waterstones though ottakars might be better for that type of thing. if its not in either (norwich is only a diddy place) then i will try and get it from the stockists themselves :D

as it happens, i will also try and get some more fabric - nothing special, but i am running out of scrap material to make my (probably many) toiles out of :)

btw, how do you pronounce 'toiles'? im guessing its french, making me think more of 'twarls' kinda thing, but i dont want to name it and have everyone look at me funny cos i said it wrong :D
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
Annis
Post Knight
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:59 pm
Location: Here, there, and everywhere!
Contact:

Post by Annis »

lidimy wrote:btw, how do you pronounce 'toiles'? im guessing its french, making me think more of 'twarls' kinda thing, but i dont want to name it and have everyone look at me funny cos i said it wrong :D
yeh u pronounce it like that!
"They call me 'quiet girl', but I'm a riot"

Post Reply