Hardest bit of kit to make ??

Annis · Post by **Annis** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:01 pm

Buckrum is a sort of thinkening thing. well like fabric (but thicker) and has glue on one side. cut the shape then iron it onto the fabric and TA DA!!! its stiffened...sort off. cardboard works better, perhaps maybe covering it in sticky back plastic first?

From your local resident Blue-Peter girl:

Annis x

frances · Post by **frances** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:46 pm

The sort of buckram I use is either pelmet buckram - used to make - umm - pelmets for your windows. Or hat buckram, used to make, oh dear, hats. It is like coarse linen which has been stiffened to the consistancy of cardboard. Useful in that you can wire the edges, to make a curve, and sew into it, as in sewing on jewels and beads and pearls. It is usual to paint it and/or cover it with fabric in historical headdress making. For modern hats it comes in lots of colours and different coaseness of weaves.

Annis, were you thinking of vilene perhaps?

gregory23b · Post by **gregory23b** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:27 pm

Buckram came up in convo the other day, as it does, was medieval buckram different from modern buckram? I faintly recall being explained it some years back, but it fell out of my head.

frances · Post by **frances** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:56 pm

23b - I have no idea, but I did think that they used stiffened linen fabric. Stiffened with?? not sure. Starch from plants in later medieval times would have been possible on mainland Europe. But I expect that there was a glue that could have been used to the same effect here. Anyway thems that had stiffened headdresses also had servants to do all the washing and re-stiffening. Buckram is a bit more permanent for us types who have to do the maintenance ourselves.

lidimy · Post by **lidimy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:28 pm

eh annis, i have bad experiences, stiffening with cardboard!! infact, the use thereof was the first bad mistake i made in my first rendition of a tudor bodice. its ok the first time you wear it, but then with use the cardboard bends and once it has bent it is useless. i used corrugated cardboard, so you could see every dent really easily too.

buckram, eh? is that availibe at most fabric stores? sounds kinda useful.... *makes mental note*

frances · Post by **frances** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:43 pm

Pelmet buckram comes from shops that sell curtain fabric.

guthrie · Post by **guthrie** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:02 pm

Definitely my boots- little room to manouvre, hard work. Whereas although a lot of work, (And a little blood) went into making my padded jack, it wasnt so tense, because I started with plenty of spare material, and therefore had room to manouvre.

chrisanson · Post by **chrisanson** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:33 pm

Annis wrote:Buckrum is a sort of thinkening thing. well like fabric (but thicker) and has glue on one side. cut the shape then iron it onto the fabric and TA DA!!! its stiffened...sort off. cardboard works better, perhaps maybe covering it in sticky back plastic first?

From your local resident Blue-Peter girl:

Annis x

being a blue peter fan myself i should have knowen this

thank anyway

chris

lidimy · Post by **lidimy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:31 pm

you cant call a home-made garment your own until you have a little bit of blood spilt on it.... darn needles!!

Drachelis · Post by **Drachelis** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:04 pm

- I have no idea, but I did think that they used stiffened linen fabric. Stiffened with?? not sure. Starch from plants in later medieval times would have been possible on mainland Europe. But I expect that there was a glue that could have been used to the same effect here.

I believe they would have used size - ground and melted down horses hooves ( from what I can gather) I had to use some to stifen muslin over a frame work for a statue I made in the theatre - honks to high heaven.!. Shallack (sp?) could also have been used I would think.

Cheryl
Shadowlight Designs

Annis · Post by **Annis** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:04 pm

lidimy wrote:you cant call a home-made garment your own until you have a little bit of blood spilt on it.... darn needles!!

Yeah, tell my about it. oh and hot chocolate dregs....dont ask.

nutmeg_bec · Post by **nutmeg_bec** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:00 pm

The buckram I use is from our local haberdashers: hemp fabric, coated with PVA glue (takes a bit of rain, but not much)!

As for the hardest item of clothing? Well, milinery aside, it has to be a gothic fitted dress/underdress/kirtle (or whatever you call it), coz I make all the adjustments on myself (and I'm not the most flexible of girls)! That said, I haven't tried hose yet

lidimy · Post by **lidimy** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:09 am

here's a pic of my french hood

sorry about the light, you cant see it very well, but comments welcome

a lot of work went in to that!!

Sophia · Post by **Sophia** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:10 pm

Well done, looks impressive - can't comment on accuracy as not my specialist period. Nearest I ever got was an early english gable headress, not a total success as the black silk I chose for the veil was a little stiff. Will try an dig up a photo for you.

BTW if you haven't already got it this is a must for your birthday or Channukah list.

The Tudor Tailor
Mikhaila, Ninya & Malcom-Davies, Jane
Batsford, London 2006
ISBN-10: 071348955
ISBN-13: 9780713489859
£19.99

Wonderfully researched, has definitions of fabrics and a useful list of suppliers at the back. I bought it as I intend to do Tudor one day after I have exhausted WOTR - if that is possible.

Sophia

lidimy · Post by **lidimy** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:33 pm

i can assure you that my hanukkah list is well stocked with tudor themed items

i didnt actually use any guides with my f.hood, it was all trial and error so i feel that i can be quite pleased with the attempt!! if i was to do it again, i would do it differently - i was too lazy really so i used glue on some bits where i really could have sewn it... but nevermind, there'll be plenty of chances i am sure!!

Sophia · Post by **Sophia** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:11 pm

Glue not good - Liable to give to easily. I suggest you get yourself a good range of needles. There must a good haberdashery shop in Norwich, buy the full range.

Betweens (sometimes known as quilting needles) - good for sewing seams.

Sharps - good for hemming and rolled edges

Embroidery needles

Darning needles

Tapestry needles - have a ball point so are excellent for fabrics where you don't want to spit threads

Repair needles - straight and curved, the curved ones are particularly good for stitching buckram and wire together for headresses.

Remember to match the size of your needle to the work you are doing, finer fabric means finer needle, and not to have too much thread on the needle. My lated beloved Granny Cohen, who was a pro before her marriage, always said no longer than your arm.

If you are really serious and are doing a lot of hand sewing you probably want to invest in a range of linen and silk threads for sewing. For serious authenticity woolen fabric should be sewn with wool. I generally compromise and sew my long seams on the machine. I use cotton thread for wool and linen, and silk for silk. Am gradually moving to doing more and more by hand. Skirts cannot be attached properly on the machine, they have to be whipped on or they don't hang right.

The best places to shop for specialist threads, etc. are The Original Re-enactors Market or the National Living History Fayre (Both near Coventry on 27-29 October this year - they are also held in March every year). Links as follows:

http://www.reenactorsmarket.co.uk/
http://www.livinghistoryfayres.com

If you can't get there and can wait then you should go the Templars Fayre at Cressing Temple Barns nr Braintree in Essex. Generally on 2nd weekend in May. Link to the barns is:

http://www.cressingtemple.org.uk/

Isn't quite as large as the others, but there were some very good Tudor stalls there this year.

Happy Stitching,

Sophia

Lena · Post by **Lena** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:49 pm

Sophia wrote:For serious authenticity woolen fabric should be sewn with wool.

That may be true for Tudor (not my area), but for the Middle Ages, linen threads were also very common. For decorative stitching on wool, silk were sometimes used. For sewing silk fabric, silk threads were used, and for linen fabrics, linen threads were used. (see MoL Textiles and clothing, p. 151-153, as well as the Bocksten man's outfit)

/Lena

Sophia · Post by **Sophia** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:17 pm

Quite correct Lena.

Personally I tend to use linen as it is easier to obtain and handle though I would like to try with wool for seams on the woolen sections of my clothes. I always use doubled waxed linen thread for whipping on skirts on flat-fronted kirtles/petticoats given the weight of the skirts. I use linen and wool for topstitching and some embroidery on more ordinary garments and am moving into silk for the posher stuff (silk produces the best hand sewn eyelets and is worth every penny). The theoryfor seams as explained to me by my Grandmother is that you match the type and weight of your thread to your fabrics thereby ensuring that the seam will give before the fabric. Also if you wash the garment the thread should shrink proportionately.

I know that Jane Hugget who works on the Greyhills project with Stuart Peachey sews wool with wool - she is late Tudorbethan early Stuart. Their stall at Tewksbury had wonderful friezes, russets, blankets and says (period woolen cloth types) for those who want to do very authentic lower class clothes. A bit pricey but I will get there eventually.

Sophia

P.S. If you venture into using period needles you need to get a range - brass, bronze, steel (late C15th onwards), same rules apply. Peter Crossman sells these and has done boxwood needles in the past. Sweetness and Light also sell brass needles and bone ones (good on wool). Problem with early metal needles is that as they warm up they bend - not sure if this is because of metal used in reproductions or if this happened at period. This means you have to change your sewing style somewhat. If you want really good period style needles that do not bend then go to Leon Conrad (blackwork specialist) as he sells genuine Japanese embroidery needles - absolutely wonderful and much recommended for goldwork. These have the same shape as period needles but do not bend in the same way - something to do with Japanese metal working techniques I think. Warning though they are very expensive which is why I haven't bought any yet and would be iffy about taking them to an event.

lidimy · Post by **lidimy** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:51 pm

okies, thanks for the tips

im no pro, i know about 2 stitches and only have 2 sizes of needle... a big one and a small one. lol. i dont really know much about fabric, or thread, or sewing at all!!

having said that, i finished my underskirt today and it looks fantastic, even if i say so myself!!

am very pleased!! unfortunately, as i finish each underlayer of my dress, i get closer and closer to the biggy - the satin gown itself. i am absaloutly petrified about it, i am so worried about getting something wrong and ruining everything!!

only one haberdashary in norwich, but will look there - its where i got my satin from and i think its pretty well stocked. i think. and hope. it should have lots of different type threads shouldnt it?!

gregory23b · Post by **gregory23b** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:00 pm

"f you want really good period style needles that do not bend then go to Leon Conrad (blackwork specialist) as he sells genuine Japanese embroidery needles "

and an excellent chap and superb embroiderer.

Sophia · Post by **Sophia** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:19 pm

Tell me about it Jorge - unfortunately I just don't have that sort of time, patience or space at the moment.

Will definitely be treating myself to some needles expense be damned - tired of sewing with soft steel needles.

BTW has anyone done any research on the needle making industry for our period? I am convinced that steel needles wouldn't have been so bendy - sure it has something to do with tempering. I know that they were being produced in large quantities by the mid C15th in southern Germany round Nuremburg (my good friend and sewing buddy Birgit comes from round there).

Sophia

Annis · Post by **Annis** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:44 pm

This is my French hood I made for my AS levels. That isnt me modelling the hood, its a friend! It was rather easy. I did decorate it it with gold thread between the bottom of the crescent and undercap. And look! I made chin ties!

The Tudor Tailor is a good costuming book....and ive got it dedicated and signed!

guthrie · Post by **guthrie** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:42 am

lidimy wrote:you cant call a home-made garment your own until you have a little bit of blood spilt on it.... darn needles!!

I'm assuming thats one of the reasons thumbles exist, but I've never quite gotten into wearing one, and my fingers are a bit bigger than normal thimbles anyway.
I think I shall try making some medieval thimbles at some point.

saxon · Post by **saxon** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:57 pm

Hardened steel needles made to your requirements for any period ............. not silly prices either !

Eric the well read · Post by **Eric the well read** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:32 am

I don't know about the hardest thing to make,
but does 17,000 (!) pearls and glass beads, without a glue gun,
count for anything?
http://www.chimera-costumes.co.uk/slide ... w.php?s=15

Regards,
Eric

frances · Post by **frances** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:13 pm

I've just bought a lovely buffalo bone thimble from the Victoria and Albert Museum shop.

chrisanson · Post by **chrisanson** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:15 pm

frances wrote:I've just bought a lovely buffalo bone thimble from the Victoria and Albert Museum shop.

sound nice, any pics?
chris

gregory23b · Post by **gregory23b** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:27 pm

"I had to use some to stifen muslin over a frame work for a statue I made in the theatre - honks to high heaven.!. Shallack (sp?) could also have been used I would think."

I used gelatine (same as hoof glue, but cheaper and non-smelly and also a proper medieval glue) by accident to stiffen (starch stiff like) some linen, it held up rather well.

Shellac is not medieval european and is from the far east and a later addition to our shores.

frances · Post by **frances** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:07 pm

Dear Chrisanson, having computer troubles at the moment (again!), so scanner not working. When it is I will do a scan of the thimble. I would be interested to know if it is a copy from something or just a figment of the designers imagination. At the moment it resides on a Victorian-style pin-cushion/cotton-reel stand on my real Victorian mantlepiece. Covered in 21st century house-dust.

Laffin Jon Terris · Post by **Laffin Jon Terris** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:33 pm

Hardest bit of kit to make (so far) were these, next project for me is a brigandine!

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I plan eventually to be a completely self made man!