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Bi-parti hose

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:09 am
by Marcus Woodhouse
I'd like to get some bi-parti hose next season. has anyone got the names of some traders they have dealt with and potential costs?

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:14 am
by Tuppence
go to one of the markets in october, and you should be paying no more than approx. 50 - 60 quid or so for hose whether parti coloured or plain.

Debs

ps - that's assuming you mean 15th c conjoined type, in wool, and hand
finished, with point holes to hold them up, rather than that silly draw string arrangement ... :roll:

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:10 am
by Marcus Woodhouse
Aye that'd be the fellas.

Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:33 pm
by Tuppence
Well that's what I'd charge, and I know I'm not cheap, so I wouldn't expect it to be much more than that.

Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:39 pm
by gregory23b
I thougt it mean stripey ones like the foppish Italiasn and Frecnh of the late 15thC, euuuw heathen dog.

Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:02 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
Aye now that'd be even better but have youse seen the asking on them?

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:54 am
by kate/bob
before you order any, I spent ages checking through images to find parti colour hose for late 15thc and had real problems finding any. As a result I've stopped wearing the ones I had. I found one picture with an incredibly posh bloke wearing some, but that was it.

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:28 pm
by Tuppence
They're not what you might call common, but they are about.

For the stripey kind I'd probably charge an extra 20 -30 quid, so use that as a guide.

(It's that whole making a new 'fabric' by stitching together strips of cloth before you cut them thing that makes it cost more :lol: )

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:45 pm
by gregory23b
Very scarce pre-1480 or so, a fair few French pics of that era plus some Italians, but foppish all the same. I shall be writing to our good king to issue a new edict regarding such outrageous items of clothing. Trouble with wearing something so obviously of a time is you can't use it backwards in time to say 1455, sounds obvious but we have all seen it.

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:53 pm
by Sophia
Good point there Jorge :D

I am finding the same with some of my circa 1475 type costume.

I am definitely going to have to come up with some earlier stuff for next season.

Generally, do earlier rather than later and lower status rather higher status first. Also remember that early high status gear can be used at a lower status later unless it is too outrageously posh.

Sophia :D

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:06 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
Mi lady tuppence I want it to be publically known that i would never describe you or any other lady of taste as cheap.

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:06 pm
by Dave B
There's a great outfit, parti hose, parti doublet the other way on and even parti hose in the illustrations of Cleriadus et meliadice circa 1470. might be more than one actualy. It's in Richard Britnells 'Daily life in the Late middle ages'.

Will scan it if anyone's interested.

Dave

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:16 am
by Marcus Woodhouse
There was a post on the specific history thread for 1100-1500 that went into quite a lot of depth on this. The general conclusion was that people felt bi-parti hose were worn by "bloody forreeneers and poftas" which suits me fine as that is what I am trying to portray. Green and white bi-parti hose for instance was issued as livery by Antoine the Bastard of Burgundy and Florentine troops were issued with red and white bi-parti hose.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:47 pm
by Karen Larsdatter
I've been doing some looking-around on particolor garments too -- but I've found a few English examples of parti-hose, like this wall-painting and this wall-painting (both of which are in English churches).

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:31 am
by Marcus Woodhouse
Thanks ma'am.

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:47 pm
by Andreas
It was my belief that bi-coloured garments were predominantly a 14th century affair coming out of fashion by about 1420 in pretty much all of Northern Europe? Book is out of the house, so might be mistaken on the exact decade. Wallpaintings posted two posts earlier fit to that, btw.

Obviously the old exception is always visible on pictures, especially on nobles or other fancy folk I suppose. Very surprised about the mi-parti hose and doublet mentioned earlier, are you sure that this is past 1420? And not at a tournament or portraying a fool or something? If not, would be very interested indeed!

However, I concur that mi-parti hose come back into fashion particularly in Southern Germany and possibly Northern Italy (Tyrol) in the 1470's. Especially common being red-white and black-yellow. However, these would normally be worn with uni-coloured doublets.
Southern Germans also start finding slashes in coats fashionable in the same decade. Both features escalate ultimately in the famous Landsknecht-Look of the 16th century.
I don't have a clue to which extent this comeback of mi-parti clothing spreads through Europe (like Burgundy).

So far my knowledge from books. By no means a specialist, me! Happy to be corrected in the most devastating ways.

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:35 am
by MJ
There's a contemporary illustration of a complete parti-coloured outfit (even the hat!) from 1475 shown in "Daily Life in the Late Middle Ages", ed. Richard Britnell, Sutton Publishing, 1998.

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:26 am
by Andreas
My apologies for picking this up again, but parti fashion genuinely interests me, as I own a parti silk doublet which I seek to justify a bit better.

As Britnell was mentioned twice, I got his book 2nd hand from Amazon. I belief you are both referring to the illustration from "Apollonius of Tyre", depicted on page 25, which appears to be NOT dated by the author. Albeit that given it was done by the same artist as the predominantly mentioned "Cleriadus and Meliadice", it is probably around the 1470's.

Re Cleriadus, Britnell mentions the inconsistency of the illustrations with the text, the former attempting to depict the extremely rich and extravagant characters described in the text in a very basic, common fashion. According to the author, the illustrator appeared to then enhance his basic images by using very unusual features of fashion. The picture from "Apollonius of Tyre" is used by the author as an illustration of even more unusual fashion for the time.

The mi parti figure is only visible from the back, wearing a parti hose, tabard and hat. It appears in a scene set at court (I think), with no other example of even remotely parti clothing in all other illustrations by the same author in the Bridnell book.
The author mentions the parti outfit as a "surprise" in the caption to the picture, and then talks about dresses of other figures in the picture which is the subject of the chapter.

Based on all this, it is my impression that the figures clothing is meant to depict a character of unusual status, most likely from an entertaining background.
Short - I would say this is a fool.

Sorry guys!

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:05 am
by Marcus Woodhouse
There are plenty of people who have met me who'd describe me as a fool as well Andy. well actually those aren't the exact words they would use. I'll get told off if I tell you what those are.

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:24 pm
by Karen Larsdatter
Andreas wrote:Based on all this, it is my impression that the figures clothing is meant to depict a character of unusual status, most likely from an entertaining background.
Short - I would say this is a fool.
Well -- was he short? Because if he were merely short and wearing particolored garments that were otherwise unremarkable, then I'd say he was probably a fool of some sort; but from what I understand about what fools would typically wear, I'd still expect to see an unusually-constructed hood, probably with donkey-ears and/or a belled point.

Liveried servants also appear in later 15th century particolored clothing, as well as other assorted personages (like this shepherd c. 1470, for example); I wouldn't be surprised to find musicians and minstrels dressed in parti-clothing, as they had in earlier times.

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:53 pm
by Andreas
Re Marcus: :) Nothing to do with you mate, am just interested in the general commonality of parti clothing in that period. If I was you and fancied parti hose, I would just go for it and when asked talk about German fashion.
I myself wear as said a parti doublet at times, which I kind of explain via the new fashion of parti hose in Germany and the upcoming 16th century fashion streaks.

Re Karen: Very fair point! After writing the previous text it kind of occured to me that actually I have not really a clue how a 15th century fool would actually exactly look like, and that it might just as well have been a servant or a musician. And no, he's normal sized and just wears a round brimmed felt hat thingie.

Livery in general I think is a different subject. Lots of mi-parti livery coats and bends and tabards around across the whole continent, clearly. The shepherd is interesting! Old livery coat or something? Fashion of the common man? Any suggestions?