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Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:18 pm
by GinaB
Thank you for these links Lena - more to add to the files and to think about!

Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:44 pm
by The Admiral
Thanks very much to Nigel and Vicky - I have been in touch with Willow and he's very kindly agreed to make some points for me :D :D (for both me and my hubbie actually as I've decided to join him in the re-enacting). Well they do say if you can't beat them join them eh?

Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:56 pm
by gregory23b
I would like to say how nice John's aiglettes are, lovely, just right, I look forward to pointing them.

Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 6:04 pm
by Vicky
gregory23b wrote:I would like to say how nice John's aiglettes are, lovely, just right, I look forward to pointing them.


Absolutely - if you're up for rivetting on your own, John's are very good indeed!

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:42 am
by Laffin Jon Terris
Whilst on the subject of all things braidy, what about the wheel braiding systems commonly known as trollen(sp) wheels?

Are they ok for 15th century use (in view of the public)?

They make a fantastic braid and I find them easier to use (and teach) than luceting (and much quicker too!) :lol:

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:18 am
by Lena
GinaB wrote:Thank you for these links Lena - more to add to the files and to think about!


If you want to follow up about the viking lucet debate, it's somewhere in here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorsefolkArchives/

Possibly continuing in Norsefolk_2 as well.

/Lena

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:04 pm
by GinaB
Laffin Jon Terris wrote:Whilst on the subject of all things braidy, what about the wheel braiding systems commonly known as trollen(sp) wheels?

Are they ok for 15th century use (in view of the public)?



I understood that this was an Anglo-saxon/Viking tool. But, I have done no research on it, or the braids it produces, so really can't give you an answer, besides the fact that I wouldn't use it for 15c until I had some other evidence. :wink:

I'll post a query over on the Soper Lane site - we have quite a few site members who deal in other periods as well as some in Northern Europe. They may well have some answers!

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:16 pm
by Lena
GinaB wrote:
Laffin Jon Terris wrote:Whilst on the subject of all things braidy, what about the wheel braiding systems commonly known as trollen(sp) wheels?

Are they ok for 15th century use (in view of the public)?



I understood that this was an Anglo-saxon/Viking tool. But, I have done no research on it, or the braids it produces, so really can't give you an answer, besides the fact that I wouldn't use it for 15c until I had some other evidence. :wink:

I'll post a query over on the Soper Lane site - we have quite a few site members who deal in other periods as well as some in Northern Europe. They may well have some answers!


If it's a wooden disc with holes around the edge (googled, couldn't find any images), I can safely say that I've never seen them in all my eight years in Scandinavian archaeology. When I saw one at the NLHF I thought they were a post-medieval thing as I've never seen any before.

/Lena

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:24 pm
by Vicky
Lena wrote:
If it's a wooden disc with holes around the edge (googled, couldn't find any images), I can safely say that I've never seen them in all my eight years in Scandinavian archaeology. When I saw one at the NLHF I thought they were a post-medieval thing as I've never seen any before.

/Lena


If I know what you're talking about, isn't it Japanese Kumihimo braiding? As far as I can tell, nothing medieval English about it!
eg: http://www.mtnloom.com/Kumi.htm

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:38 am
by Lena
Vicky wrote:If I know what you're talking about, isn't it Japanese Kumihimo braiding? As far as I can tell, nothing medieval English about it!
eg: http://www.mtnloom.com/Kumi.htm


Yes! That's the one I saw.

Thanks.

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:25 pm
by Laffin Jon Terris
Fantastic! so now its a Japanese thing device- they get everywhere! :lol:

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:22 am
by GinaB
Yes Vicky the feedback I have had is that it is Kumihimo which explains why I wasn't familiar with the name.

It seems to have become popular in re-enactment after a disc that might have been used for braiding was found in a Viking context - the same person who told me this said that the finds were reclassified last year. We are trying to track down further info, but that could take some time. (This was part of a general discussion within the Braid Society)

The general consensus within braiding people is that they wouldn't suggest its use in any pre-modern context in the UK.

So, I really wouldn't use it on site as there is no real evidence, particularly if the only item that could possibly have been used for it has now been reclassified.

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:56 pm
by gregory23b
Just found this from Libell of English Policy 1420 but re-written over the next few decades too.

Part of the list in rhyme of the commodities from Spayne.

....Iren wole, wadmole, gotefell, kydefel also
(for poyntmakers full needfull be the ij)

Goat and kid skin.

Another definitive description of what points were made from (although not exlcusively as we know about arming points too).

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:16 am
by Chickun
Jorge you total geek.. careful you'll have more geek points than me old boy soon.

ggggeeeeeeekkk!

Talking of which - I have a little something for you..

Not hijacking the thread totally I'd like to say how excellent Gina's book is - totally fab - Mrs Chickun loved it!

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:20 pm
by Braidwoman
Re the "Trollen Wheels", people who sell or use them often justify their use in a Viking context by saying that there was one found at Birka or Hedeby. But there is an excellent book by Eva Andersson which came out in 2003 called "Tools for Textile Production from Birka and Hedeby", which describes some 2500 tools and discusses the textiles made with them. There is absolutely nothing in the book which resembles one of these things, nor any mention of the sort of braid made from it.
Agree with you about it being Kumihimo, isn't it just a marudai without legs?

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:46 am
by Chickun
Just had a set of points off of Willo - very nice they are too!

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:19 pm
by The Admiral
Yes he did me a set too - they're great and he was really quick - they'll get their first outing at Tewkesbury.