What is this Tudor hat called?

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sally
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What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby sally » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:59 pm

As seen in Holbein here (http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/1532woman.jpg) and here (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... nger12.jpg), and my badly 'styled' effort here (yes, my coif isnt on straight and I havent pinned the edges in properly, but you get the idea). But what are they called? They seem to be vaguely 1530s in date if that helps.
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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby myladyswardrobe » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:02 pm

I would call it a bonnet. As opposed to the more structured English or French Hood.

However, I have no evidence to back that term up.

Modern terminology would call it a beret because it looks like one.

I think yours is a lovely example. I have a stiffer version which is "thinner" at its front to its back. That probably makes absolutely no sense at all without a picture but I don't have a good close up one online.

All the best

Bess.


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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby sally » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:16 pm

'Round bonnet' then maybe? I need to find a way to describe some of these things so that they arent all just 'Tudor hats, assorted' when people ring up to ask for specific styles



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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby myladyswardrobe » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:27 pm

"Round Bonnet" could be a good one. Or perhaps a "Ladies Early Tudor Bonnet"?

The problem with Tudor hat styles is in period there are very few actual terms used (bonnet; cap; biggins; hat; hood) but these few are interchangeable between actual styles and indeed male/female/adult/child.

The "typical" Tudor man's hat is also called a bonnet! But sometimes its a hat! And then there are female versions of the typical man's gentry hat (Katherine Parr in red dress) as well as this bonnet in white (I've only ever seen images of it in white or "natural" colour). Then in the Elizabethan period the ladies "bonnets" get teeny tiny so are very different from the 1530s.

Why can't the Tudors have thought about this?? Its like them refusing to turn around when being painted and giving us a back view of their clothing!

:crazy:

Hope that helps a bit.

Bess.


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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby EnglishArcher » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:31 pm

How about "halo bonnet"?

I've got no basis for the name whatsoever; it just sounded good to me.


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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby sally » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:43 pm

Bess- I agree that the definite ones of these are white, but what do you make of this one? Is it one of these in a darker version, or is it a 'flat hat' of large proportions? There is something going on in the lower left of the hat that I can't decide if its a shadow or a structural detail?
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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby myladyswardrobe » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:55 pm

Interesting image not seen that before. I assume its a Holbein?

However, when was that particular/specific image done? Is it a later (as in post 16th century) copy of one in the 1530s? Many of Holbein's sketches get "coloured" in or "tidied" up during the 19th century and certain details start to look very different.

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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby sally » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:57 pm

thats very possible, I found this on a random google trawl of Holbein images, so it could be a later rehashing. I'm going to try to get a proper book of his images from the library and see if I can track it back to an original



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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby Grymm » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:04 pm

A plainer version of this (and from a different angle)?
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Or a girly version of this?
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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby Grymm » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:12 pm

His pomegranate ent ripe!


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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby wulfenganck » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:54 pm

Sorry for nitpicking, but I have seen this type of hat (sort of bonett with flaps covering the ars) quite often on various paintings/illustrations from all over, i.e both England as well as the Holy Roman Empire. I feel the term "Tudor" therefore rather misleading, as "Tudor" refers to something solely english. This hat doesn't seem to be so regional.



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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby sally » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:18 pm

wulfenganck wrote:Sorry for nitpicking, but I have seen this type of hat (sort of bonett with flaps covering the ars) quite often on various paintings/illustrations from all over, i.e both England as well as the Holy Roman Empire. I feel the term "Tudor" therefore rather misleading, as "Tudor" refers to something solely english. This hat doesn't seem to be so regional.


This one has no flaps, its the coif underneath that covers the ears- but by all means, point some pictures of it elsewhere out to me, always happy to widen my scope. I made it to go with a Tudor (English) outfit, hence my use of the term, but I may well find a better name for it in continental sources if you ca point me at some starting points



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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby Brian la Zouche » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:18 am

erm how about a hat ? :lol:


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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby wulfenganck » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:17 am

I had a look through the IMAREAL Image's server http://kerberos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/realonline/
If you enter the conceptual search function via "material objects", then clothes - headdress, you'll get both the birett - which seems to be used as a term for clerical headdress - and the barett. The latter term is used in general for quite some variations of that type of hat.
I'd say stick to that term and maybe then differ in the following description.



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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby Brian la Zouche » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:20 am

or a hat :P


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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby Grymm » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:05 pm

Whilst following up the rapidly fading refs to mens knitted woollen hose in the reign of No8 I was mooching through The Cunningtons' Handbook of English Costume in the 16thC and on page 79 they have a line version of the pic where they refer to that hat as Brimless Bonnet, large.


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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby Grymm » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:11 pm

The pic underneath has a similar arrangement of linens but the bonnet is 'french beret' sized which they call.......brimless bonnet, small.


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Re: What is this Tudor hat called?

Postby Ania M » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:33 pm

I have a pic of something similar in a book on hats and hairstyles. It is dated c.1535 but does not give it a specific name, referring to it merely as a "cap". It does state that they were white or light in colour and became smaller in size later in the period.





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