Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

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GOK
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Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby GOK » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:35 pm

Last year I read somewhere that there is no evidence of weaving sticks being used prior to the 20th century but I cannot for the life of me find the article/text again. Does anyone know of any references (preferably academic), or any articles on the subject?

I've also read that the inkle looms we have now, even those sold by historic traders are likely to be an invention of the 1920s, although the braid turns out the same as that woven on historical looms. Again, what documentary and/or pictorial evidence is there for this assertion?

I've been toying with the idea of branching out into weaving but unless I can find something that's absolutely appropriate for mid-17th century (and can be backed up), I shan't bother!

Thanks in advance for any help! :D



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby GOK » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:36 pm

What, nobody?! :D



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby sally » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:30 pm

Weaving sticks are a very recent thing, but I can't think of any academic articles on them to point you at. I certainly know of no early variation on them thats documentable.



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby Merlon. » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:51 pm

Based on what people say here:-
http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11305&start=0
What is normally refered to as a inkle loom is not authentic



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby mally ley » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:16 pm

You are asking people to prove a negative, which is tricky.

Received opinion is that inkle looms are C20th, possibly appearing as part of the craft revival in the 1920s. I know of one trader who sells inkle looms (and I have one and I love it) on the understanding that their design can be used to produce good braid BUT is not right for an LH setting.

I have yet to see any pictoral evidence of inkle looms in C15 or C16.



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby GOK » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:54 pm

mally ley wrote:You are asking people to prove a negative, which is tricky.


Not really, I was after evidence that the inkle looms which so many C17th LH-ers are using, were invented in the 1920s (although it seems that they could be late Victorian), and that the weaving sticks I've seen a lot of the same people using, are mid-20th century!

Received opinion is that inkle looms are C20th, possibly appearing as part of the craft revival in the 1920s.


Which is exactly what I thought - so where does this come from? Does anyone know?

I know of one trader who sells inkle looms (and I have one and I love it) on the understanding that their design can be used to produce good braid BUT is not right for an LH setting.

I have yet to see any pictoral evidence of inkle looms in C15 or C16.


Agreed, although as we know, LENEL...which is a defence for using inkles and sticks I've heard several times! :D As I understand it, the braids produced by modern inkle looms is practically indistinguishable from those made traditionally, so I wonder if it's simply a case of people just thinking therefore, that it's OK to use a modern piece of equipment to reproduce much older-looking braid...if you see what I mean?

Thank you for that link Merlon - I think I might have read that one a while ago, it seems to be vaguely familiar. It may indeed be where I first read about the non-authenticity of today's inkle looms.

Weaving sticks are a very recent thing,


Thanks Sally - I was pretty sure they've only been around since the 1950s or thereabouts but again, I wanted to be able to back this up with some cold, hard evidence. Do you or anyone else here, have any idea why something which may have been invented so recently has become something to be used in an historical setting? In my head, I cannot get from "This is not C17th century" to "But I'm going to use it and tell people it's historically authentic"!! Is it just that it's the same mentality that says it's OK to wear desert boots on the field, or polyester fabrics, or visible machine stitching? :roll:



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby Merlon. » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:48 pm

The consensus of opinion across the web appears to be the Inkle Loom as it exists today dates from either 19th or early 20th century.
I can find only one site that makes any kind of explicit claim

http://www.marariley.net/tapelooms/tapelooms.htm
"The modern inkle loom was designed in 1924 by the Industrial Arts Cooperative Service (later known as Artcraft)."

It then lists various books and example pictures of 18 & 19th century tape looms. That might allow you to extrapolate a more accurate machine to look for in terms of period evidence.
Many people when offered a solution, regardless of how accurate it is, will take the easy route. Hence the prelevance of the Inkle Loom, after a while it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy
I’m afraid, like many things, you are in the lands of “best guess” and “more research needed”



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby lucy the tudor » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:08 pm

Hi Gok, don't go for the not bothering option, just use a box loom with rigid heddle, or tablets and a post frame, and you have plenty of evidence for them being around.
Backstrapping with a heddle is the cheapest way to start, and there is evidence for that being used on the Mary Rose heddle ( no enormous box looms found and a flippin' big heddle was...)
Small heddles are pretty cheap, mine start at a fiver ( other heddle suppliers are available 8-) )
If you want to get nicely authenty and produce braids, you can always buy "tak V bows departed" and finger braid- sometimes a team sport...makes nice braids and exercises the brain too.


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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby Colin Middleton » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:11 pm

GOK wrote:Do you or anyone else here, have any idea why something which may have been invented so recently has become something to be used in an historical setting? In my head, I cannot get from "This is not C17th century" to "But I'm going to use it and tell people it's historically authentic"!! Is it just that it's the same mentality that says it's OK to wear desert boots on the field, or polyester fabrics, or visible machine stitching? :roll:


I'd go for the "This is so simple, they must have had it back then" mind set.


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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby GOK » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:30 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:
GOK wrote:Do you or anyone else here, have any idea why something which may have been invented so recently has become something to be used in an historical setting? In my head, I cannot get from "This is not C17th century" to "But I'm going to use it and tell people it's historically authentic"!! Is it just that it's the same mentality that says it's OK to wear desert boots on the field, or polyester fabrics, or visible machine stitching? :roll:


I'd go for the "This is so simple, they must have had it back then" mind set.


Of course Colin, why didn't I think of that?! :lol:

Thank you for that, Merlon - I'll have a look later when I finish work (on lunchbreak ATM). And Lucy - thank you - good avice as ever! I'll have a look at your wares later on! I've done tablet weaving (when I used to do early medieval c.20+ years ago, so am a bit rusty) but never with a frame. I've never used a box loom, so am definitely up for learning something new!



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby lucy the tudor » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:36 pm

ermm, admitting now my website is pretty far out of date, but it does show the heddles a bit...
will be sorted soonish, have just bought a new camera, just need to learn how to use it, plug it into the puter, contact Kate Tiler, having found the pass words book, ( I think I put it in a drawer the last time I meant to sort this out, and got distracted)
One day I may even get efficient, but don't hold your breath.
What shows are you going to soon, and we can have a play with different wool crafts with provenance, and see which ones suit you?


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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby GOK » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:00 pm

lucy the tudor wrote:ermm, admitting now my website is pretty far out of date, but it does show the heddles a bit...
will be sorted soonish, have just bought a new camera, just need to learn how to use it, plug it into the puter, contact Kate Tiler, having found the pass words book, ( I think I put it in a drawer the last time I meant to sort this out, and got distracted)
One day I may even get efficient, but don't hold your breath.
What shows are you going to soon, and we can have a play with different wool crafts with provenance, and see which ones suit you?


That's really kind of you Lucy, thank you. I'm not actually doing any shows now until Stamford (1-3 October) because we have our hands full with the 17th century garden (and its MoPs every weekend). I don't suppose you'll be there, will you? It's multi-period as far as I know.



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby lucy the tudor » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:35 pm

Hadn't considered Stamford...
yet


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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby lucy the tudor » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:56 pm

OK, looked at the only details for Stamford History Festivalthat I could find on the web- am I being thick and they have asked for traders and such for this and I just can't find them, or is it a specific time period to the level they only want specialised folk?
It says they are doign schools on the Friday, and then that there will be a market over the rest of the weekend, if anyone can give me a contact to speak to re working there, it looks an interesting proposition...


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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby GOK » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:13 pm

PMed you, Lucy!



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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby timbobarnacle » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:24 pm

Thank you 8-)


fast removing B&Q boxes from re-enactment, and hoping to do the same for sash cord guy ropes

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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby lucy the tudor » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:19 pm

timbobarnacle wrote:Thank you 8-)


sorry , wrong sign on, Thank you... :wink:


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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby Colin Middleton » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:25 pm

GOK wrote:Of course Colin, why didn't I think of that?! :lol:


Too simple a solution? :wink:


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Re: Weaving Sticks and Inkle Looms

Postby GOK » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:01 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:
GOK wrote:Of course Colin, why didn't I think of that?! :lol:


Too simple a solution? :wink:


Very probably - if there's a difficult way around something, I'll find it! :D




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