Tudor bodice question

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disgracelands
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Tudor bodice question

Postby disgracelands » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:04 am

Hi, I have just finished making a bodice (apologies if I am using the wrong name for it).
Anyway, I wondered whether anyone has any advice please on the lacing aspect. I have made the bodice from brown wool fabric for the outside and it is lined with linen. The whole thing is hand sewn (although I did use modern thread as it is all I had). I didn't have a pattern as such but made it from sketches I had made of a friends bodice and then just tried to create a pattern from my sketches out of bits of paper sellotaped together lol, then just kept trying the paper one on and cutting it down to size. Bearing in mind I am not an experienced sewer and haven't really ever done any dress making it hasn't turned out too badly and actually fits! However, I guessed the lacing hole placement and have made six down each side about 1 - 2 inches away from each front edge, the holes are 2 inches apart vertically and hand stiched to keep them from fraying etc. The problem is that I have just had a read about medieval lacing on dresses and it said that the holes should not be very far apart so I am now wondering whether 2 inches is too much and if I should just add some more holes in between the ones I have aready made? Then I am unsure on firstly what cord to use for the lacing, would it be wool made into cord on a Lucet or something (never used one but think I could work out how to if need be) or would a 'knitting dolly/nancy do similar thing or are they a more modern invention? Or should it be laced with something else entirely? And secondly, how should it be laced as I have read that crossing isn't correct. I have tried a google search and image search but only really come up with costume/fancy dress type things which I assume won't be very accurate.
Anyway, sorry to ask so many questions and hopefully someone out there will have words of advice for me please, also please say if you think what I have described is completely wrong anyway and i should just make it all differently. I could try to put a photo on perhaps to show what I have done so far.
Thanks for you time
Sonia x



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Sophia
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby Sophia » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:44 am

Yes - Ideally lacing is about 1" apart and the method you are looking for is spiral lacing. Unfortunately posting from phone so can't give links but IIRC there used to be an article on the web entitled 'the zen of spiral lacing' - try google.


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mally ley
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby mally ley » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:02 am

Here is the article Sophia mentioned.

Do not use knitting nancy type cord. This is wrong, besides which it makes a knitted tube and is not dense enough, so it will wear out very quickly.

Lucet cord is good (we can ignore the small can of worms about lucets in the C16th) and it would take an expert getting very up close and personal to tell it apart from other forms of cord. Can be made of wool or linen, which is harder wearing.



disgracelands
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby disgracelands » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:02 am

Thanks both of you for the advice. I am just going to have a look at the link now.
If Lucet cord is also not right what do most people use please? I don't mind buying something more accurate or learning a new technique to make it, I just don't really know what it is I actually need. Also, is it the same thing which I would need to use in a waist of a skirt?
Sorry for all the questions again, and thanks for looking
Sonia x



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Jenn
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby Jenn » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:39 am

Lucet cord as Mally said would be fine for your purposes
A couple of questions - when in the 16th century are you aiming for?
In general (and there exceptions either way) - before 1550 the bodice and the skirt tend be joined at waist making an all in one garment
http://www.moleiro.com/miniatura.v.php?p=167/en
http://www.kikirpa.be/www2/cgi-bin/wwwo ... 0=20027226
there are lot of images here
dated around 1530/1540
After this you might see a separate skirt and bodice, often worn with a gown over the top for smart occaions. I wouldn't expect the waist of this to be drawstring
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... c_1569.jpg
you can see servant etc in what look like separate bodices and skirts and then more repectable townswomen wearing gowns over them
Obviously there are exceptions depend where you come from, who you are etc
Hope that helps



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mally ley
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby mally ley » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:20 pm

Just to emphasize part of Jenn's answer - you wouldn't have a draw-string waist on the skirt.

The skirt is either attached to a waistband or directly on to the bottom of the bodice. The part of the skirt at the front (only about 3-4" either side of the centre front) is flat, the pleats then going round to the back.

Don't worry about what I said about lucet cords - that is pure geekery, and I don't know enough to have an opinion either way, I just know it is a subject for 'discussion'!!
Lucet cord is perfect for your purpose and, as I said, it would take an expert, getting far too close, to start to wonder about how it was made.



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Jenn
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby Jenn » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:35 pm

Thanks Mally
I didn't make that as clear as I could have done
Can I suggest if you are intending to make any more costume of this period that you consider buying
The Tudor Tailor
http://www.tudortailor.com/bookshoptt.shtml which is really helpful



disgracelands
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby disgracelands » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:02 pm

Thanks Jenn and Mally Ley,
I have looked at the Tudor Tailor online actually, it does look really good, but does it concentrate on the more 'up market' clothes rather than peasant style? I am not really looking to recreate a rich person type at the moment lol, I think my financial sitution in real life just about mimics a peasant of the past right now lol, so plain and basic is probably about all I can afford. I am not experienced at sewing (chose woodwork at school!....which I was also pretty rubbish at :roll: ) but I do enjoy making things or at least trying to! And do find hand sewing quite relaxing (obviously not done enough of it yet! :wink: )
I 'm just really trying to learn as I go, so I do apologise if i come across as completely dim or ignorant on things which perhaps it seems i should really know about. I just seem to keep coming up with imges of saucy wench outfits of fantasy type dresses if I do a google search so am drawing a blank really. (No offence to saucy wenches lol, the image does quite appeal, but I am trying to do this as autentic as I can and not end up looking like something from Pirates of the Caribbean - well not unless Mr Depp is about to call round my house :devil: )
Thanks again,
kind regards
Sonia x



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Tamsin Lewis
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby Tamsin Lewis » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:29 pm

This site is quite useful if you're new to costume making
http://freespace.virgin.net/f.lea/



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Jenn
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby Jenn » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:42 pm

No it covers the range but I appreciate what you're saying look at the images I put up - they're not rich people and they'll give you an idea



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Calendula
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby Calendula » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:02 pm

Also many of the patterns in the Tudor Tailor can be used for posh or basic clothing, depending on what fabric you choose. It's an excellent resource which will give you a lot of well-researched background info on the period as well.



Adam the Archer
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby Adam the Archer » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:30 pm

Not an expert on ladies clothing - but can I just say congratulations just for having a go at hand sewing (hope that does not sound patronising).

I tend to use Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion - it looks at surviving garments from the period, so they are high status, but it is good for learning about the construction techniques of the period



disgracelands
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Re: Tudor bodice question

Postby disgracelands » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:02 pm

Thanks for the links and suggestions, they are all really helpful and muc appreciated.
Adam, thanks for the complement re- the sewing.....mind you, you haven't seen it yet! lol
Hopefully I will find a local group to join soon :-)
Sonia x




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