How much?

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Hobbitstomper
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How much?

Postby Hobbitstomper » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:37 pm

How much polyester or nylon is it possible to get away with in wool without anyone noticing? Assuming the garment is made up so can’t be burned or chemically tested.



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Re: How much?

Postby Nigel » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:11 pm

what you bought ?


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Re: How much?

Postby narvek » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:24 pm

Rock on Nigel! :rock:


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Neibelungen
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Re: How much?

Postby Neibelungen » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:55 pm

Technically every textile garment should have a label in it specifying the composition of the main bulk of the item. And the label should give the breakdown of what the main 85% total contents of the entire item are. Decorations, interlinings etc, constituting 7% or less of the total material are excluded.

It's actually an offence not to have these labels in them, and reconstruction clothing isnt an exception.

If it says pure wool, then it has to be 100%, otherwise it has to specify quantities. For instance Hainsworth's re-enacting grade wool is 88% wool and 12% nylon in it's napoleonic range, but 100% in its other re-enactment range.

Basically you either lie about it and face the consequence if anything happens, or you have to state it. Your local trading standards should have a fact sheet available outlining its determined standards.


Should add, importantly.. This only applies to articles that are sold 'off the peg'. Bespoke or made to order are different and the client has the oportunity to discuss fabrics with maker, hence doesn't require labeling. Should also note, you are supposed to have a country or origin or manufacture label as well.


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Re: How much?

Postby agesofelegance » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:54 pm

about 10% will show, however it is still possible to burn or test seams to check if someone is suspicious, even if the garment is made up.

To clarify what Neib said, it is in fact illegal to label something100% if it isn't, although the law does allow for inadvertant fibre mixing during the manufacturing process of up to 2%. If you aren't sure of the % mix or the exact fibres it is allowable to use a 'mixed fibres' label.

All off the peg clothing has to have fibre content (body and lining if different fabrics),in by law and it is advised to also include care and country of manufacture labels, before it can be sold, whether in shops or on markets, modern or historical. This can be sewn in the garment or a label with the packaging. Bespoke clothing doesn't need these by law but you do need to tell teh customer what it is, if you said you were using 100% anything and it transpired you weren't then you could be sued, to say you didn't know it wasn't is no defence.

http://www.ukft.org/images/pagefiles/Fi ... elines.pdf gives the current regulations


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Re: How much?

Postby agesofelegance » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:43 am

also meant to say even a tiny amount will compromise the safety aspect of wool so it can't be worn safely around fire or gunpowder, so is unfit for purpose


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Re: How much?

Postby Miss Costello » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:03 pm

Constantly amazed at how much sold as 'wool' and 'linen' isn't. Actually! Bloody infuriating.



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Re: How much?

Postby Tuppence » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:56 am

People don't know fabrics these days.


H-S, up to about 10% will be ok-ish. Only way to be sure if it flash burns is to burn test a couple of threads (you could split the hem and pull a couple out, then re-stitch it back up - or get me to if you like).

Remember that a lot of re-enactment wool is sold as melton (whether it actually is or not), which legally can be a max of 10% synth.

Also remember that not all synthetics burn, and that not all man made fabrics are synthetic.


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Neibelungen
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Re: How much?

Postby Neibelungen » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:46 am

Remember that a lot of re-enactment wool is sold as melton (whether it actually is or not), which legally can be a max of 10% synth.


I thought melton was a decriptive term for a heavily felted and napped woolen cloth, rather than a defined composition.

Still have to specifty the material content of the fabric though. Just calling it 'Melton' doesn't mean your not obligated.

100% melton fabric means nothing in itself... it's wool plus whatever else.

If it's 100% wool then you can call it pure wool.. if it's 97/3 then it isn't pure wool. (your allowed a 2% margin of error if it's not precisely known)


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Re: How much?

Postby Tuppence » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:58 am

however, that doesn't affect the fact that many re-enactors, and re-enactment traders hear the word 'melton' and automatically think it' means 100% wool. I was of course, only using that as an example of the lack of fabric knowledge that abounds.

For another example of that, melton has no nap, and often isn't particularly heavily felted*.



Oh - and the labelling requirements for textile products - there doesn't have to be a label on the item itself - it can be on the packaging, and / or it can be detachable.**







*source - many, many swatches from hainsworths.

**source - trading standards.


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Re: How much?

Postby agesofelegance » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:47 am

Melton is in fact a cloth made in melton and can also have a cotton rather than a wool warp. The dictionary definition is

'Melton cloth
Melton Mowbray is home to Melton cloth (first mentioned in 1823), which is the familiar tight-woven woollen cloth which is heavily milled, and a nap raised so as to form a short, dense, non-lustrous pile. Sailors' pea coats are traditionally made of Melton cloth, the universal workmans' donkey jackets of Britain and Ireland and in North America, loggers' "cruising jackets" and Mackinaws.'


If trading standards were to hit any of the markets there would be a number of traders closed down due to incorrect or non labelling of fibre content of items and other regulations.

I spend a lot of time these days working with local designers on getting the correct regualtions sorted before they start wholesaling and selling their clothes so they don't fall foul of the law and it's a shame that those trading i the reeanctment world these days aren't warned of their obligaitons and consequences if they don't comply, which could hugely affect their business.

We were in fact visited when I had my shop in london in the 90's, as we were selling unusual items, such as historical clothing from there and they wanted to check we were ok with everything, luckily we were, but it was a very helpful visit to clarify the information I'd previously been given

BTW I did say earlier that labels can come with the packaging, rather than being sewn in, which can make life a little easier so you don't have to spend a fortune buying in all the sew in ones


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