What to give for New Year, 1526!

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steve stanley
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Postby steve stanley » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:07 pm

OK....That's nice......
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Re: What to give for New Year 1526

Postby lidimy » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:04 pm

James Bretlington wrote:[quote="lidimy], what about Henry VII? Who on earth covers that period apart from maybe a one off event? That would be fascinating to do. It seems atm that it's a gap in re-enacting, or is that just my perception? Like... Burgundian gowns are going straight into turnback sleeved square necked things and short little doublets and hose for men go straight into those big frothy hose and jerkins... would be nice to cover the inbetweeny bit, IMO. Surely there is no lack of sources for the period![/quote]

We did this at a fair over here once, and the resident colothing specialst looked all over for references, and didn't find too much.[/quote]


Ach, that's a shame :(

I guess the family portrait of Henry VIII (with mum& dad) might be a start... Margaret Tudor... there has to be something! :'(

Steve - that's what real men look like! :lol: :twisted:


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steve stanley
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Postby steve stanley » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:51 am

Yeah...Most 1490's stuff,I've seen is Italian...Lidi..Other than the fibre-glass weapons!(read the link....)
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Postby lidimy » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:05 am

Ahh, my untutored eye doesn't tend to linger on weaponry! I actually hadn't noticed they looked a bit odd :oops:


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Postby lucy the tudor » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:28 am

red razors wrote:yes but it has a collar with ruffling on it, which is too late for 1535. isn't it?


Yes, afraid so, but the square necked ones are a doddle to do compared to hand sewing all those ruffles in place. Make one up in a day quite easy if you concentrate...and though they are a bit chilly on cold days (partlet!) they are much better in the glorious sunshine and extreme heat we are due at Kentwell this Summer coming. (Please Lord?) Those of you with a chest even get to flash a little cleavage ( though the bodicey bits at that time should be trying to flatten it not lift it- not a challenge in my case...)
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Postby lidimy » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:34 am

And if they're kinda of a rounded square I expect you can use them for later 15th C too? (as long as they don't have cuffs or anything). At least, that's what I'm aiming for. Nothing like a bit of fabric economy!


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Postby Annis » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:37 am

lucy the tudor wrote:
red razors wrote:yes but it has a collar with ruffling on it, which is too late for 1535. isn't it?


Yes, afraid so, but the square necked ones are a doddle to do compared to hand sewing all those ruffles in place. Make one up in a day quite easy if you concentrate...


Unless you have to blackwork it! :( :D


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Postby lucy the tudor » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:44 am

It's your punishment for being posh and having people wait on you with lovely food and fine music, instead of " a thousand and one variations on the theme of pottage", oh Quiet One.
Anyway, it's not as if you have any studying to do, so maybe the blackworking will keep you off the ale and young male students for a few nights
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Postby red razors » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:34 pm

hmmm, i don't fancy the idea of my pale décolletage open to the sun! does it have to be wide-necked?!?



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Postby lidimy » Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:25 pm

red razors wrote:hmmm, i don't fancy the idea of my pale décolletage open to the sun! does it have to be wide-necked?!?


Yes!!! :o :lol:

Though you could fill in the gap with one of those draped rectangles of linen around the neck?


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Postby Annis » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:58 pm

lucy the tudor wrote:Anyway, it's not as if you have any studying to do, so maybe the blackworking will keep you off the ale and young male students for a few nights
Lucy :wink:


:shock: I do have studying to do! I've got an assignment to finish before I even think about making a start on my shifts! And I have another assignment due in, in a couple of weeks.

Anyway, I have my fabric now, but I'm scared someone will say that it's all wrong! :( I have navy wool (although in indoor lighting it looks black), midnight blue velvet for the turnback sleeves, and linen to line it all.

Oh, and some black wool if I decide to make a partlet.


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Postby lucy the tudor » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:36 pm

More partlets were white than black, apparently, though mine is midnight blue it is a kentwellism , and i already had the wool cheap.
Assignments, ah, i remember them ###sigh### happy days.
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Postby red razors » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:34 pm

lidimy wrote:Yes!!!

sh!t.
i will have to lash on the factor 50 so. i want my bosoms to still look fresh and plump and as unlike a leather bag as possible when i am 40.

actually, can i ask one question about doing kentwell? not sure if this is secret or not. do they make up a name for you or can you bring your own?



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Postby Annis » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:37 am

red razors wrote:do they make up a name for you or can you bring your own?


You can bring your own. As long it's authentic.



Although, I am very intrigued in which family member I'll be next year :D (Yay! Another name change, just to confuse everyone that little bit more!)


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Postby red razors » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:01 pm

authentic english or authentic irish? ;)



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Postby Annis » Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:54 am

red razors wrote:authentic english or authentic irish? ;)


Authentic English, preferably Suffolk...or at least Essex - I have a whole index of Essex wills, managed to name a newbie Valentine last year.


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Postby Jenn » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:28 pm

Annis I'd go for a white (as fine as you can linen) partlet. Look at the walking lady by Holbein (there's a link on the kentwellies site) - this is about the level you should be aiming at - and no train)
To be honest I'm not sure whether you really have to black work either it's not as evident (although it does exist). It's certainly not as ubiquitous as later years.



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Postby Annis » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:31 pm

No, I don't want a train, would make it difficult to dance in too!

True, I might just do a bit on the cuffs, I don't think I've seen many with it on the neckline.


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Postby Jenn » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:02 pm

well it depends who you are as regards names - if you are Irish and obviously so it's a bit daft to deny it so ..an irish name might be good but then you'd need to know why you're there too.



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Postby Annis » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:07 pm

Finally finished my assignment, so I've made a start on my first shift :D


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Re: What to give for New Year 1526

Postby Cecily » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:18 pm

I am definitely intruiged by this clouding thing though. It's the level of detail that something like.. oh my.. Janet Arnold's linens book might cover!

I bought Janet Arnold's new book at the weekend, and lo & behold, on page 56 there's a smock embroidered with flowers, rainbows, raindrops, and clouds! Could Henry's actually be. . . clouds?



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Re: What to give for New Year 1526

Postby lidimy » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:33 pm

Cecily wrote:I am definitely intruiged by this clouding thing though. It's the level of detail that something like.. oh my.. Janet Arnold's linens book might cover!

I bought Janet Arnold's new book at the weekend, and lo & behold, on page 56 there's a smock embroidered with flowers, rainbows, raindrops, and clouds! Could Henry's actually be. . . clouds?


10 shirts, with clouds at the collars and ruffled at the hand. 9 shirts of white work, square-collared. A Milan shirt, wrought at the collar and hands with gold, and open-seemed with black silk. 2 shirts, one with clouds, the other of white work, with a surfull of black silk. 11 square-collared shirts with clouds of black silk. 9 linen coifs for the night. 3 ruffled shaving cloths. 2 high-collared shirts of Spanish work, of the new fashion. 2 night shirts, one white, one wrought with black and white silk. 65 handkerchers, broken and whole. 6 night coifs, broken; 4 rubbers. 5 Milan shirts; the collar and hands wrought with gold and silk and open seams with black silk and gold; others, the collar wrought with gold and pyrled with pomegranates and roses; with pyrles of gold on red silk; with a border on the collar and pyrles of silver,


(original requoted for easier reference)

It may just me being picky, but the contrast between 'one with clouds, the other of white work' seems like it's not referring to a pattern - especially due to the lack of mentioning of what the pattern has been embroidered with, where it is so exacting later on when describing the design of the pomegranates and roses?

I don't know. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. It just seems a bit vague to say 'one of clouds'? Esp as this is still 1526 and more geometric styles of embroidery may have limited the possibility of a shape such as a cloud which would rely heavily on curves?

Just expressing thoughts, it would be brilliant if something like this was exposed in the book! :D

I want clouding!! 8) :o


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Re: What to give for New Year 1526

Postby Cecily » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:31 am

lidimy wrote:
Cecily wrote:I am definitely intruiged by this clouding thing though. It's the level of detail that something like.. oh my.. Janet Arnold's linens book might cover!

I bought Janet Arnold's new book at the weekend, and lo & behold, on page 56 there's a smock embroidered with flowers, rainbows, raindrops, and clouds! Could Henry's actually be. . . clouds?


10 shirts, with clouds at the collars and ruffled at the hand. 9 shirts of white work, square-collared. A Milan shirt, wrought at the collar and hands with gold, and open-seemed with black silk. 2 shirts, one with clouds, the other of white work, with a surfull of black silk. 11 square-collared shirts with clouds of black silk. 9 linen coifs for the night. 3 ruffled shaving cloths. 2 high-collared shirts of Spanish work, of the new fashion. 2 night shirts, one white, one wrought with black and white silk. 65 handkerchers, broken and whole. 6 night coifs, broken; 4 rubbers. 5 Milan shirts; the collar and hands wrought with gold and silk and open seams with black silk and gold; others, the collar wrought with gold and pyrled with pomegranates and roses; with pyrles of gold on red silk; with a border on the collar and pyrles of silver,


(original requoted for easier reference)

It may just me being picky, but the contrast between 'one with clouds, the other of white work' seems like it's not referring to a pattern - especially due to the lack of mentioning of what the pattern has been embroidered with, where it is so exacting later on when describing the design of the pomegranates and roses?

I don't know. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. It just seems a bit vague to say 'one of clouds'? Esp as this is still 1526 and more geometric styles of embroidery may have limited the possibility of a shape such as a cloud which would rely heavily on curves?

Just expressing thoughts, it would be brilliant if something like this was exposed in the book! :D

I want clouding!! 8) :o



You're probably right; this isn't 'my' historical period, though I love the clothes etc!
I would imagine the geometric embroidery styles would have been a fashion, rather than due to an inability to sew other things, or an absence of materials. (Although it looks to me as if multi-coloured embroidery on washable white linen undies, rather than monochrome, came in later, perhaps as the fastness of dye was improved?) So I would think it's technically possible that curvy, even multi-coloured, clouds might have been embroidered on Henry's shirts. But that doesn't mean they were!
I've heard an expression "clouds of lace" . . .
When did lace start to appear? I sometimes make bobbin/pillow lace, but don't know much about it's distant history. It doesn't seem to exist in the medieval period, and is everywhere in latter, Tudor times.



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Postby lidimy » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:49 am

Sorry Cecily, about 5 mins after I shut down my computer I realised the whole point of my post was to say that, if there's 'clouding' which refers to a pattern of embroidery, surely there would also be listed 'pomegranating' and 'rosing'?

which was what I meant.

Don't know about lace though.... I think people like Sophia or myladyswardrobe would be able to help!


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Postby red razors » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:47 pm

Jenn wrote:well it depends who you are as regards names - if you are Irish and obviously so it's a bit daft to deny it so ..an irish name might be good but then you'd need to know why you're there too.

that's what i was angling towards. it is definitely obvious that i am irish :)
i have been rather vaguely thinking of back-story since i decided i was definitely going to apply, but i need to start considering it more thoroughly now. i know there were plenty of irish emigrants in suffolk during the ecw but i haven't nosed around the 1500s just yet.
i was also hoping to have an irish slant on my kit, but information on women's clothes before the 1700s or so is not widely available so i'm not sure whether to bother or not.



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Postby lucy the tudor » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:05 am

If you want to have a back story involving Ireland you can, and no one will argue, but equally you don't need to just because you have an accent...
They have participants with strong American accents, and Australian, and no explanation is given, or indeed sought by MOPs. People are happy to accept that some of us sound Northern, or from just about anywhere, but still claim to have been born and bred in Long Melford.
As a visitor, after you have accepted the time slip, the accent is the least of your disbelief issues I suppose.
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