Don't mention the war...

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lucy the tudor
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Postby lucy the tudor » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:09 am

OK, a bit more time to look at this one properly, and thank you all for helping me so much on this one.

I agree, there is no way I want to "take any teacher on" about how they want things to be in their classroom, no matter how wrong I think they are, because I have a business to run, and hopefully a living to make. I have not been at the game long enough to risk any bad feeling ruining a reputation I am trying to build.
I shouldn't really have mentioned the Henry's wives thing, or what I see as the overly restrictive *rse covering re arrow handling etc, as they were a distraction, and more to give a perspective of how that teacher is unusual ( so far) . I don't usually mention Henry and his marital behavior at all, indeed I don't discuss the dissolution of the monasteries, unless a teacher or child asks, in which case I try to be as delicate as possible.

The main worry for me was the dressing and the codpiece. I do always ask the teachers to choose from the volunteers, someone who is confident enough to cope, and though I haven't mentioned the codpiece specifically in the past with teachers, I may do so in future - purely for covering my own butt.
Having said which, I will continue to dress the kids. I only do two, and by the nature of the clothes I use- velvet and silk close fitting doublet with fully paned hose, hand stitched, etc, I cannot pass the clothes over and let the child put them on as they are too heavy and unfamiliar. Fixing the points to the doublet would take so long to explain, and it would make the exercise too lengthy and unwieldy. I do understand that I am now on thin ice in doing this, but I think that is a sad indictment of our society, and will try not to become so PC that it restricts the experience for the kids. I was a little wary yesterday in a school I had visited before, and didn't talk about the development of language by using "*rse" and "p*ss" in context, which I often do- followed by an explanation of why I would like the children not to use those words themselves, as they are seen differently now...I was pulled up by the teachers who were disappointed that this was not done this year, and thought I was being too cautious, they had apparently been looking forward to that bit!
The dressing of the children is a very small part of the session for me, but I do think it is important- it leads into so much, it is in my leaflet that I do this, so teachers should be aware of it, in fact more teachers have asked if I will be getting together class sets of clothes, so they can all get dressed- and I have considered this, though the investment in time and cloth would be major, and I am not sure if I could get them to concentrate on the other activities if they were all over excited by looking and feeling so different, maybe just hats?
Most of the time I spend with the kids is taken up with making butter, marchpane subtleties, carding, spinning, weaving, grinding grain, looking at toys, coins, eating utensils etc. We are mostly hands on, and very active, when they get to handle the clothes almost all the children want to try them on, which I don't allow for the sake of time constraints and the survival of the clothes- hats and ruffs only...
We don't do boring and lengthy clothing sessions, far too much fun waiting to waste too much time on just that, but I do think if we are to show the clothes at all, it is wrong not to show them on a body, it would just seem too much like a museum exhibit if we didn't put them into context by showing how they feel and move.
Yesterdays' kids didn't even notice the codpiece- unusual as it is quite a perky little thing, so I wasn't challenged to handle it with greater delicacy just yet ( ooer !).

So to summarise, I will continue to take the considered risk of handling the children, in a public setting, over their clothes and with as much care as possible. I will leave the codpiece where it should be, and discuss it with perhaps a little more delicacy than previously, waiting until the child is not wearing it any more before doing so, to reduce the connection to that individual, and hopefully their embarrassment potential.I will try to show the teacher what the child will be wearing before they do so, but actually the number of teachers who show very little interest in what I am about to do is frightening- I have a job to get them to stay in the classroom long enough before the kids get there to even discuss the activities...

It is not a perfect world, schools are a minefield, and I can only hope to cover my butt enough to survive, without losing the reason I am doing this in the first place- to enthuse, educate and entertain children in as accurate a way historically as I can manage, given the circumstances in which we all have to work. Oh, and to try to make a living at the same time.
Thanks again, everyone, all input greatly appreciated.

Lucy
:D


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The Iron Dwarf
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Postby The Iron Dwarf » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:14 am

I think there are many things banned these days that the ban has caused no improvement and possibly in a lot of cases caused things to get worse.

has society got a lot less violent due to the ban on things like tom and jerry cartoons?
has the loss of the robertsons golly on marmalade and jam improved race relations?
has the banning of discussing things ever worked?
what good would it do to make desperate dan moderate his language, stop eating 'cow pie' and have a quiche or a salad instead?
has the banning of many nursery rhymes actually done any good at all?
( and im not even allowed to say they are 'blacklisted' or I might be blacklisted too :shock: )
historically I would guess religion has caused a lot of wars and bloodshed so for religious people to say things cant be discussed which I suspect are in the national curiculum and are certainly part of our history is to my mind wrong.
and as to the PC brigade and those who ban any sort of disciplin in or out of schools or any sort of competetive sport in schools I think they have damaged not just one generation.


you may not agree with me but I would fight for the right for you to be allowed to have an opinion.

( all of the above is my opinion, rightly or wrongly whilst we are still allowed to have an opinion and as to those who disagree, that is your opinion and I hope for your sake you are still allowed to have one tommorow)


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Postby Eric the well read » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:28 am

A good and reasoned argument Lucy.
That should eradicate any future problems.
But having said that - there's always one idiot, somewhere....... :wink:
Reqards
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The Iron Dwarf
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Postby The Iron Dwarf » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:43 am

there's always one idiot, somewhere

that I would disagree with........


there are always lots of idiots everywhere :)


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:45 pm

I don't think religions cause war, people cause war and then use religion to justify their actions.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

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Postby Eric the well read » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:09 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:I don't think religions cause war, people cause war and then use religion to justify their actions.


Does that apply to the leaders of religions? The Pope for example?
Was just thinking about Crusades.

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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Yes the Pope as well.


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Postby Kate Tiler » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:47 pm

Glad I came back to check how this was going - last Tuesday I was at Jack's & needed some scrap paper - he uses the backs of all the hundreds of kids 'thankyou' letters he gets - unusually for him he showed me one that he had decided to keep, from a school visit last week - when I have time I will copy what the child wrote word for word for you, but he said seeing & learning about the clothes and especially the codpiece was the best bit of the day! And this is with Jack who not only takes them out to shoot a longbow but goes out & fires a gun!!!! And the codpiece was the best bit!!!

The letter I finally wrote on for scrap was also from a girl who said trying on the clothes was the best bit.

His solution to getting the kids to try on the clothes? Have a girl child to dress a rich 'Tudor woman' & a boy child dress a rich 'Tudor man', as their servants, in role. Rich Tudors couldn't dress themselves, its a part of the design of the clothes - they are physically impossible to get on yourself. (I know, I had to help Jack get into his posh doublet in a park in Hinckley on Saturday!)

Twice the involvement, twice the impact & he doesn't have to touch any children - the man's a genius!


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Postby Kate Tiler » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:49 pm

Oh & just because we have all 'seen clothes done to death' - for every child we visit, it is the first & probably only time they will experience this.


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Postby lucy the tudor » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:06 pm

OOOh!
I like the role playing idea- they would get to see the servant relationship better as a part of the whole thing too...
You always give me brilliant stuff, Kate, from magic string to wool races-
THANK YOU.
Lucy :D


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Postby Kate Tiler » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:17 pm

That's all right my love, I told Jack about the thread & asked if I could tell you about his solution & he agrees with me, he thinks you are great! He said 'Oh yes I know her, she's good isn't she?' (That's more praise than I've had from him in 19 years...!)

I just realised I still owe you a tenner for the lovely lucett you sent me - sorry I lost your address :oops: can you pm me again?! The lady next door passed it on & the lady from the WI was very happy with it, thank you! Customers like me you could do without eh?!


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lucy the tudor
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Postby lucy the tudor » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:48 pm

Entirely forgot the lucet, don't worry we'll talk about it in relation to the saw you gave Rob, and I think you are still being generous...
I love Jack too, bu the way, but i was never really sure he remembered me, he always says hello, but more in the way folk do when they can't quite place where the heck they are supposed to know you from!
i presume you are too busy to be coming to play at Michaelmas?
Lucy


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Postby Kate Tiler » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:25 am

Yes, sadly too busy trying to see the kids, as well as helping out some friends on their farm - I've learned how to milk! We met at our church & they are lovely, we've been helped for two weeks when they needed to get the harvest in. I've been feeding calves, baby pigs, big pigs and milking 60 a day! Plus I've developed a real skill at mucking out!


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Colin Middleton
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Postby Colin Middleton » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:05 pm

lucy the tudor wrote:I love Jack too, bu the way, but i was never really sure he remembered me, he always says hello, but more in the way folk do when they can't quite place where the heck they are supposed to know you from!


To be hones Lucy, I have you pegged as a nice person, etc but would walk straight past you at an event because I can't remember what you look like! :oops:

I'll just have to pay more attention next time I pass your stall! :wink:


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lucy the tudor
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Postby lucy the tudor » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:57 pm

That's OK Colin, I don't offend easy...
I look like a generic middle aged middle class, middle England woman, I should take up espionage or being a private detective, miss me in a crowd with no trouble at all.
Having said which, should I know you? Where did we meet? Sorry!
Do say "Hello" next time you pass the stall, and we can then forget each other from a better informed position.
Lucy :wink:


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Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:49 pm

Glad I didn't offend!

I bought a frame saw off of you at Boot Camp and if I ever see your stall again, I shall definitely be browsing and will say "hi" too while I'm there.

For reference, I'm 6'2" with mid shoulder length blond hair and a beard, so I don't tend to blend into the crowd too well...


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Postby Mad Mab » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:21 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:
For reference, I'm 6'2" with mid shoulder length blond hair and a beard, so I don't tend to blend into the crowd too well...


Seriously? In re-enactment?
:lol:


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Postby The Iron Dwarf » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:11 pm

us short people need a different description, we have to recognise people by their knees ;)


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Colin Middleton
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Postby Colin Middleton » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:26 pm

Mad Mab wrote:Seriously? In re-enactment?
:lol:


:lol:

Incredible as it sounds, yes! Though my bank does have a customer who looks just like me!


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