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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:15 pm
by lidimy
*sighs*

I don't want to make a crappy inauthentic dress :(

The dress Marcus sent me the piccy of is Savoyard, which, he said, absorbed a lot of other fashions from across the border. I'm not going to worry about that, so even if my other sources come from outside of Italy/Savoy, I'm happy to use them if they show the same design. The 'Allegory..' is a Memling, for example, and another piccy shows Margaret of York wearing a virtually identical dress; the shield image is, Zac said, of Flemish origin but doesn't this rather show it was a widespread style rather than me being wrong to call it Savoyard? And at the end of the say, it's been sanctioned by Mrs Costume Lady, the design itself, is, as far as I'm concerned, not the issue. The whole point of it was Italian, not English BTW :D

Zac, I'd love to have a look, thanks :D

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:07 am
by Xioumi
Lidi I think the green of your silk looks more 'acid' in your photo rather than it does in real life (I'm familiar with the silk you have) and I have seen very bright greens not dissimilar to it produced with natural dyes, not by me I might add, it was during a workshop I was attending. With regards to shot fabric in this period it is a little less clear. The certainly had the ability. If you look at a lot of surviving brocades they are woven using more than one colour thread and there are vague references to fabrics woven with two colours. The way it was described gave the impression it was shot. I wish I could be more clear regarding the last point but typically it is something I read years ago and I can't remember where yadayadayada. From what I can dredge up from my foggy memory it was from a wardrobe account arount the end of the 14thC. I do realise that is completely unhelpful when it comes to referencing, sorry.
Also just because the potrait with the greeny-yellow silk is Italian doesn't make it irrelivant as a source. The fabric trade was international and there are records of italian fabric merchants with offices in london at that time.
You won't be making a 'crappy inauthentic dress'. You will be making a dress using the information you have and interpreting it as best as you can. That's what we all do! There are plenty of people who re-enact who make ther clothes to the Nth degree of accuracy and there will always be others who (whether they are right or wrong I might add) can pick holes in it

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:01 pm
by seamsmistress
xioumi - here here and very well said :)

Lidi - I don't have a problem with the colour of your silk [and I agree with xioumi having seen it, it isn't as acid in real life]. Nor do I think it wrong to have a lowish neckline on your underdress, or a high one - was just asking the question as to your interpretation of the woodcut neckline. The Savoyard does look a bit earlier to me, but then I haven't researched that image either........


I don't want to make a crappy inauthentic dress
I don't think you will. As I understand it, the question was about cuff facings, what materials and balancing that throughout the outfit to produce a well thought out and researched piece - asking the questions and seeking opinions is part of that process.

Keep smiling .....and keep going!

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:22 pm
by lidimy
Oh yes... I had almost forgotten this was supposed to be about cuffs! :lol:

But as a final point about the neckline (because I was put out by the double lines around her neck) This dress being worn by Margaret of York Image

Seems to be worn with a thick necklacey thing? Maybe it's just one of those? Maybe hopefully? Plus does that help with the dating? As in, the other piccies I've seen of *that* style seem to be late 15th C.

Thanks for the advice on the colour. Maybe the flash on the camera gave it too much contrast?

Anyway, I've just emailed the Quartermasterie!

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:26 pm
by lidimy
Was just thinking about what to wear underneath this contraption and was caught on the kirtles page of the MTA... would the flat fronted kirtle be OK? I mean, could the front panel be made entirely of the decorative fabric which the gown will lace over? I was going to take the boning out of my Tudor kirtly thing and wear that, but I'm doing some major surgery on it at the minute! :lol:

It seems the most sensible option, but I don't want it to be anachronistic!

(pg 91, for reference; and I'd be leaving off the flounce)

:D

*thinks*

Actually.. it would probably be best just to use the pattern I made to make sure it fits in all the right places... doo be doo.

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:33 pm
by lidimy
OK, here's a piccy of how it's going. And yes.. I do have to hem it all and put on the other sleeve before Saturday! :shock: (or face the shame of not wearing anything on the Sunday.)

Umm... what else... oh yeh the lining at the back is in two different colours because I ran out of green :lol: and had rather have the skirt area whch might be seen, in one colour, than make sure the parts no one is going to see are matching. So... there. :lol: the sleeve came out looking a bit funny but it does fit, honest! and... only three holes are laced with a particuarly sumptuous shoe lace, but I'll be wearing it ladder laced in black silk ribbon. There's one set of lacing rings below those shown, and two above the highest shown, you just can't see them 'cos I'm clever like that! :lol:

Image

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:25 pm
by lidimy
Second sleeve completed just this minute past....

now about 1.5/2m more of hemming and it'll be finished!

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:16 pm
by seamsmistress
Second sleeve completed just this minute past....
Well done! Knew you'd get it licked in the end :lol:
now about 1.5/2m more of hemming and it'll be finished!
just another hour to go then.. yahoo!

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:34 pm
by lidimy
My timing exactly!

Then just the stomacher type thing, but that won't take long. hang it, the only edge of it that'll be visible will be the top so if worse comes to worst... :lol:

Galumphing great stitches, in short!

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:58 pm
by lidimy
It's finished...

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:19 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
Sweet Mother of God! where I not a happily married man way beneath your station I would introduce you to a fair land where you might plant your feet , mi lady.

By the way when are you going to attend an event where we can meet ainsling?

My wife is totally rejecting the Italian look as being to revealing, she is making herself a Burgundian style affair.

You should see the doublet she has made for me though. Very Milanio, bella donna. :wink:

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:32 pm
by Marcus Woodhouse
Out of interest why would an Italian dress be inauthentic?

There were many more Italians actually living in England in the 14th and 15th centurires then there were Germans/Czechs/Burgundians, yet those individuals who portray them are allowed to do so without being judged as inauthentic.

The only place for those Hanse would be the Steelyard, the Flemish have their own district in London, the Hussites would have been rounded up and burnt at the stake.

Italians were all over the place though, much to the disgust of merchants of the Staple who had got the Burgundians and Easterlings on board and operating out of Calais but couldn't get the Lombards to be such good sports.

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:02 pm
by lidimy
Too kind, Marcus. As for meeting - who knows. I need my own wheels, really! But in due course, I assure you!

As for my dress - wasn't sure where would be best to put piccies so have covered all bases and am putting them in the pictures section.