C14 outdoor clothes - help please?

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the student
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C14 outdoor clothes - help please?

Postby the student » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:00 am

Hello, I'm doing a project on 14th century clothes as part of my history degree but I'm having problems finding out what people would wear outside if it was cold. I can see that nobles would wear cloaks, and that men had hoods, but what about peasant women? Would they have hoods too? Would they have worn anything like a doublet? I imagine a cloak would have been very impractical for anyone who was trying to work outside. And did they have gloves, either for work, or just to keep themselves warm? What about for travelling?
Sorry about all the questions! I've tried looking through books, but "normal" people don't get shown very often, and when they do it always seems to be summer!
Thanks. :D



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Postby Nigel » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:02 pm

For easily accesible and good reconsructions

Have alooka t Mr Embletons book on reconstructing medieval military clothing.

There are some good pics of out door dress and you can prety much guarentee gien the author that the reseach is bang on.

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Nigel


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Lena
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Postby Lena » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:24 pm

Both men and women wore hoods. Look at winter images from medieval calendars (the Dutch Koninklijke Bibliotheek has lots of searchable manuscripts online). As for practical outerwear, another dress - likely fur-lined - over the indoor garments. Mantles are more practical for looking good in, than to work in.



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Postby gregory23b » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:30 pm

Lutrell Psalter - as many outdoor bits that you can shake a cote hardie at.


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Lady Cecily
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Postby Lady Cecily » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:32 pm

Please don't forget the archaeology here - there is quite a lot of extant clothing surviving from this period, Herjofsness and Bocksten to name only a couple. I'm at work at the moment but if you PM me I can give you a lot more references.

I also would not forget the real change in fashion in the middle of the century. I think the 14th is really difficult from that point of view.


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Postby craig1459 » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:28 pm



die Behmen hinder iren bafosen ... stunden vest wie die mauren

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the student
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Postby the student » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:09 am

Thank you everyone for your help!



Lady Cecily
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Postby Lady Cecily » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:01 pm

Try and get hold of

Nockert, M. 1987 ‘The Bocksten Mans Costume’ in Textile History 18(2), 175 -186

If you put 'extant medieval clothing' into google you will find quite a lot of stuff.

I assume you have read Fashion in the age of the black prince by SM Newton

Obviously the bibliographies in the back of that and Woven into the Earth should give you more than enough reading to do.

Which part of the 14th century are you doing? Pre 1340 and post 1340 are very diferent


Caroline

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Kate Tiler
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Postby Kate Tiler » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:16 pm

Lady C - is that because of the Black Death? Or is the reason not known? I only ask because there is a marked peak of medieval tile production & installation C1350 and after that perhaps a third of the tiles that were made - i.e. for tiles that survive, I reckon about 2/3rds were produced around the 1350 era or the 70 years before. This is just my guestimate you understand :) So I am always looking for other comparisons.


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Postby Ben Rodgers » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:06 pm

I know its not of great help but this is sumthing from the London Finds now im not sure about the mitten but if it is what is says it it might help you

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4457602.stm


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Annie the Pedlar
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Postby Annie the Pedlar » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:20 am

To all students out there, I think this is an area that could do with a bit more research.
From the picture gallery stored in my brain I get the feeling that most (English, none gentry) women (Medieval and Tudor) are shown wearing dresses in cold weather. For women. coats are not that common and cloaks are even rarer. (You see them in the laterC16th/C17th Dutch paintings).

I have done a bit of testing out of this dress thing, reenacting in bitter winds, driving rain, snow and frosty weather.
You actually stay very warm if you wear two kirtles, one on top of the other.
if you mostly work inside in rooms with roaring fires. eg. you do not feel the cold nipping from the bakehouse to the kitchens.
You do need a coat if you are out on the land for a while eg searching for fire wood.
A cloak is a god send if you need to go out in the rain. But most sensible people don't do that. You shelter with friends, by a fire. while its raining and go out when it stops.
So I reckon cloaks were for travellers or emergencies. And in an emergency, a gentleman would volunteer, :wink: or you'd send out your man :wink: , to go and get drenched.
Back to one dress worn on top of another.
The bits that get cold are:
round your neck - partlets solve that problem as does wrapping a clout round your neck (mufflers);
your feet - wear stockings, stuff your shoes with straw or sheep's wool, boots are better than T bar shoes, and taking them to the cobblers in the Autumn is a good idea (you discover where the holes are when you step into snow (arrrrhhhhhhh ********!!!!!!!!!) and wear pattens;
your fingers - this is where they were clever. Many gowns have big sleeves, cuffs and/or come past the wrists. In clement weather you fold the cuffs back, in cold weather you wear them down, snuggling your hands inside.
In the C16th gloves were commonly given as presents - as gifts on happy occasions and to mourners at funerals. They are in the gentry portraits.
But could the common folk afford them?
In Bruegel's beekeepers they have bare hands and have pulled their cuffs over their fingers. In his snowy pictures you see the odd covered hand (a mitten? Or just cloth wrapped round? One, on a hunter, looks furry.)) but most people have their fingers free in the sunny scenes and tucked into their sleeves (some times of the other arm) in the overcast ones.



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Lady Eleanor
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Postby Lady Eleanor » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:56 pm

I saw a picture in a book recently of a lady out hunting wearing a sort of t-tunic over her dress. It was lined with fur, had long sleeves and came down to just above where her knees would be. I'm sure someone will know the proper name for it! I'm going to make myself one for cold weather though - it looked very warm and very practical!



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Lena
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Postby Lena » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:11 pm

Lady Eleanor wrote:I saw a picture in a book recently of a lady out hunting wearing a sort of t-tunic over her dress. It was lined with fur, had long sleeves and came down to just above where her knees would be. I'm sure someone will know the proper name for it! I'm going to make myself one for cold weather though - it looked very warm and very practical!


Sounds cool. Do you remember what book it was?



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matilda
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Postby matilda » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:57 pm

http://www.bl.uk/collections/treasures/ ... adband.htm

hopefully this link will take you to the Luttrell psalter. Here them working with the oxen, ploughing are shown wearing long gauntlet type gloves.



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Lady Eleanor
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Postby Lady Eleanor » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:36 pm

Lena wrote:
Lady Eleanor wrote:I saw a picture in a book recently of a lady out hunting wearing a sort of t-tunic over her dress. It was lined with fur, had long sleeves and came down to just above where her knees would be. I'm sure someone will know the proper name for it! I'm going to make myself one for cold weather though - it looked very warm and very practical!


Sounds cool. Do you remember what book it was?


No, sorry, but I'll find out :)




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