Collars and cuffs (the sort you find 'pon shifts!)

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Annis
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Collars and cuffs (the sort you find 'pon shifts!)

Postby Annis » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:48 pm

Just a few quick questions.

For a collar, should the neckline at the front of the shift be lower than the neckline at the back, or should they both be the same?

What would be best to use for ties? I thought about plaiting embroidary thread, but it doesnt seem orfentik and possibly tacky looking.


Ta
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Last edited by Annis on Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Postby Annis » Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:59 pm

Tudor, well, Elizabethan to be precise.


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Postby seamsmistress » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:10 pm

Okay, 3 possible variations for a womens shift.

1. Low neckline, cut to sit just above the neckline of a low necked gown. The edge was often blackworked. Your measures will need to be taken quite precisely to make sure it sits and looks right. However, since you mention collar, I'm guessing you don't mean this style

2. Collared shift, where the collar fits the neckseam perfectly - no gathering in. Ninya Mikhaila shows a pattern for this in the Tudor tailor. The back is cut aprox 1" below the shoulder/neck fold [centre of the length of cloth] and the front 1" below that.

3. Collared shift, where the neckseam is gathered to the collar. This will require a wider cut of cloth at the shoulder/neck fold, giving a wider cut necke which will then gather to the smaller collar. Somewhere amongst my research [many years, many piles of paper!] I have a cutting diagram taken from an original Elizabethan chemise. Can't immediately lay hands on it, but working from memory, I am certain that the neck is simply a slash - no cutting back higher or front lower. I'm sure that we'll know for sure when Jenny Tiramani publishes the follow on work from Janet Arnold on linens.

As to fastenings. Either fingerloop linen braid, or twisted linen thread to produce bandstrings will produce an authentic and appropriate fastening. Hooks and eyes can also be used.

Hope this helps

Gini



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Postby Annis » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:29 pm

Thanks Gini. Number two is what I had in mind.

When you say twisted linen thread, do you mean like a thin cord? Do you know how to make this? I'll have a go at Googling it.

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Postby seamsmistress » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:48 pm

How to make linen bandstrings......... Much easier to demonstrate than to explain, but here goes.

Take a length of strong linen thread 4x the finished length you want, + a couple of extra inches.

Fold in 2 and tie the two cut ends into a knot.

Hook the thread [middle fold] over a fixed point. [I use the spindle which holds the top thread on a sewing machine because it's in an upright position].

Holding the knotted end, walk away from the fixed point until your double thread is under tension.

Now start twisting the thread and keep going until you can't get anymore twists into it. You'll know when as the thread will start to twist back on itself. When you've reached this point, bring the knotted ends to the folded end [hooked over the fixed point] and let the thread twist around itself, starting from the middle. You'll now have 4 strands all twisted together. Tie off the ends and trim as needed [this is why you need the few extra inches to begin with].

I usually use a pencil slipped between the two threads to do the twisting, as it's easier to hold onto that way.

Give it a try....the worst that can happen is you end up with a couple of metres of wasted thread!



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Postby Annis » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:51 pm

Ah yes, that makes sense. Thankyou!


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Postby Annis » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:13 pm

The ties have worked well!

I'm just attaching them to the cuffs and collar as we speak :D My shift is nearly complete!! :D :D


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Postby seamsmistress » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:03 pm

Well done, that girl. I look forward to seeing a piccie of the finished results :wink:



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Postby Annis » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:33 pm

I was hoping to finish tonight, but I'm not so sure on that, I shall see. It took me ages to get one sleeve pleated to the right length!


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Postby BRIAN BLESSED » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:37 pm

I TOO WOULD LIKE TO INSPECT YOUR COLLAR & CUFFS, ESPECIALLY IF THEY MATCH.


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Postby Annis » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:02 pm

First ever cuff is now complete :D

Now for more pleating :roll: :(


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Postby Annis » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:33 pm

'nother Q. My shifts neck is slightly bigger than the collar and so I will need to pleat it, but where would be the best place to pleat?


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Postby Tuppence » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:30 pm

I'd do the pleating (or more accurately gathering) at the centre back, and either side of the centre front split.



incidentally - you do get that the title contains a fairly obvious bit of innuendo, right?


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Postby lidimy » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:59 pm

I don't think we're doing very well on thread titles, Annis.... :lol:


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Postby Annis » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:20 pm

:oops: "TAXI!"


Would it be alright to do a box pleat at the back, like on a modern shirt?


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Postby seamsmistress » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:39 am

Annis wrote:Would it be alright to do a box pleat at the back, like on a modern shirt?


Well, it's a thought, but I wouldn't, because I've never seen any evidence for that in shirts of the period.

Incidentally, why is the gathering taking so long/so difficult? What method are you using? Is this the first time you've done any gathering?



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Postby Annis » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:08 pm

oops, too late - my shift is now complete.

I absolutely HATE gathering, the gathers always seem to move about and so I stick with pleats :)

Anyway, as I was saying, my shift is complete, so here are a few pics:

Image


Image


Image


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Postby Zachos » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:59 pm

mmm tasty poshness.

Does being gentry mean you'll have to refrain from bawdy humour?


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Postby Annis » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:04 pm

Zachos wrote:mmm tasty poshness.

Does being gentry mean you'll have to refrain from bawdy humour?


Thanks.


Oh dear, erm...I think so :? but theres nothing to stop me from having a giggle and a blush...


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Postby Annis » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:05 pm

come to think of it, the dances are extremely flirtatious!


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Postby lidimy » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:14 pm

I second that last :twisted:

Smashingly sumptuously gorgeous!!


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Postby Annis » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:18 pm

Thankyou :D

At least by the pictures, you cant see the mistake...


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Postby myladyswardrobe » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:58 pm

Annis,

Your smock looks great! Well done you.

Bess


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Postby Annis » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:13 pm

Thanks :D

I think I'll have to adjust the collar at a later date though - whether I just let the ends out or completely redo it.


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Nice work

Postby lucy the tudor » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:18 pm

Lovely black work, subtle but well proportioned. I look forward to seeing you in it in 1588...... :D
Lucy


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Postby Annis » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:19 pm

Thanks. I hope I'll be wearing it next year too :D


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