Gores - Or how to lose one's sanity in one easy lesson

Making, Pictures, Queries, Resources

Moderator: Moderators

Catherine of Gwent
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:05 pm
Contact:

Gores - Or how to lose one's sanity in one easy lesson

Postby Catherine of Gwent » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:41 pm

Can anyone save my sanity and explain in words of, at most two syllables, HOW TO LET IN A GORE.

I have looked on the wonderful worldwide web, and although the information looks straightforward I am obviously being a complete thicky.

I am making a 14 Century Surcoat and it requires a gore front and back. I have not yet made the cuts into the front and back (thought I'd have a practice on some scraps first). Glad I did, 'cos I can't get it to sit right, can't get the top of the gore to look pretty, just can't. So I have left the surcoat, which is looking good so far, on the coat hanger looking pretty, and am throwing myself at the feet of the font of all knowledge.

I have cut the gores, as instructed, as triangles. Should they be cut on the bias, as suggested on one website? I suppose this would make it easier to manipulate - and I have enough material left over to cut some more if you think that this would be a better option. Should the slits in the front be just straight slits, or should I make a slightly more triangular shape to help the gores to sit properly?

How does one turn the top of the slit so that the "right side" does not fray (but doesn't look all bunched up either) and you can attach it to the top of the gore?

Any suggestions warmly welcomed.

Thank you in advance.

Ann



User avatar
DeviantShrub
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:37 am
Location: Bree

Postby DeviantShrub » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:46 pm

Practice, is the short answer.

There are some hints and tips in this thread worth reading though: http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewt ... ight=gores

I cut straight slits and sort of top stitch the top centimetre or so on either side into place. If the fabric is prone to fraying, I do a bit of blanket stitch round the very top of the slit too. Then at the back, I invariably add a patch of spare material to make it look tidy and stop the loose triangle at the top from fraying. Does that make any sense?



User avatar
Tuppence
Post Knight
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: chaos-world, west yorks
Contact:

Postby Tuppence » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:19 pm

in case it's not mentioned on that thread, cut them on the straight grain - that way you have the cros cut gore against a stabilising straight grain.


"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."
Miss Piggy
RIP Edward the avatar cat.

User avatar
Calendula
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 7:23 pm

Postby Calendula » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:26 am

Arrgh...........gores!

There is a picture demo here which might help:
http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_goresgussets.htm



User avatar
Drachelis
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:29 am
Location: SW Wales
Contact:

Postby Drachelis » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:32 pm

Arrgh...........gores


Absolutely.

I have sort of developed a technique if it a gore into a seam-stitch one side of the gore and main garment and then stitch the whole seam as if it were a continuous seam ( above the gore point and below.) I can actually do a french seam this way and it looks pretty good.

but..................... its is practice too.

When stitching a gore into a slit cut an inch off the triangle point at the top ( so it is straight and not pointed)- then if you are stitiching a half inch seam each side it should meet exactly at the top. Having said that - I do tendx to do a couple of top stitches for extra security.

The other thing is to make sure the diagonal of the gore measures the same length as the straight slit ( yes I know :roll: - I learnt from experience) otherwise you will have to cut off points to level the hem


OI tend to put my gores in the side of surcoats ( I also make the back longer than the front to make a train) and then cut right angled triangles rather than isoceles triangles
:shock: I actually remembered some of my maths from over 40 years ago - triangles which have equal sides) This then fits with the shorter side at the front and the longer one fits to the side of the train. It gives a sleek front with elegant fullness in the back.

Cherry
Shadowslight Designs



Catherine of Gwent
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:05 pm
Contact:

Postby Catherine of Gwent » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:06 pm

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I shall now sit down and tack my gore into place, so that I can fiddle about with it and take it out, put it in and take it out! :D I think there must be a song and dance in there somewhere.

Probably taking time and not trying to rush is the best and only way.

Thanks again everyone - I'll let you know how I get on.

Ann



User avatar
Tuppence
Post Knight
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: chaos-world, west yorks
Contact:

Postby Tuppence » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:19 pm

If it's any consolation, when I was at college, it was the technique that took the longest to teach.

Each technique was continued till you had it, and some people took a month (that's spending a whole two days a week at it).

Pin tucks now - I like pin tucks - can't think why they didn't use 'em more in medieval times :roll:


"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."

Miss Piggy

RIP Edward the avatar cat.

User avatar
glaelia
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:50 am
Location: Hertfordshire

Postby glaelia » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:47 am

I'm making my first shift at the moment, handsewing it but we (mother and I) cut it out from a simple dress pattern (Burda) so I didn't muck it up too much! I'm doing okay, whip stitching the seams together which is working nicely. However I put one of the gore's in tonight and its all gone down hill... mother showed me how to do it so I 'eased' the gore in. It's sitting okay at the top, that's not the problem - the problem is excess material at the bottom! It's sitting and hanging nicely, but there is about 3-4 of excess past the hem of the rest of the shift ... so is it okay just to cut it down (with mother's help!) and hem it... will it end up not hanging properly, or does it not really matter?

Mum said somethnig about the way we cut the fabric making it 'stretch' and therefore be longer? Not sure I understood that bit ...



User avatar
Alice the Huswyf
Post Knight
Posts: 1308
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:13 am
Location: Please do not distract the exhibit

Postby Alice the Huswyf » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:37 pm

Trim the excess when on the body

Or you can hang it up on a hanger for a few days and let it finish dropping before levelling the hem.

Most garments which are not left to hang before hemming will do this and droop in later wear. It is time well used!


Point: are you whipstitiching the seams as a construction seam alone or as a neatening? You need an inset seam line for strength in wear.



User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Postby lidimy » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:42 pm

Is whip stitching where you go over the top of the seam allowance rather than parallel to it? So covering the raw ends?


'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
glaelia
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:50 am
Location: Hertfordshire

Postby glaelia » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:58 pm

Alice the Huswyf wrote:Point: are you whipstitiching the seams as a construction seam alone or as a neatening? You need an inset seam line for strength in wear.



As construction ... I'm following the advice on the tudor costume page ...

http://freespace.virgin.net/f.lea/shiftmake2.html



User avatar
Alice the Huswyf
Post Knight
Posts: 1308
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:13 am
Location: Please do not distract the exhibit

Postby Alice the Huswyf » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:43 pm

That method'll do it - my concern that was that if you don't have a secondary seam (in this case the hemmed edges do the job) then you don't have a firm edge and the fabric frays and the seam goes under minor strain.

Personally though, I would run and fell for a stronger seam - however this is fine for a learning garment and if you are not anticipating heavy labour. Mind you, if it is roomy enough and you are in a stays period, there is less strain on body linens anyway and you don't want bulky seams - hence the method described.

Also you will find that the stitches are likely to pop rather than the fabric tearing with this method, so it is an easier repair job.......



User avatar
glaelia
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:50 am
Location: Hertfordshire

Postby glaelia » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:13 pm

Ah, good, I was all worried for a moment then!!

I'm glad I haven't trimmed anything yet as I tried my shift on this morning and I actually need to move the gores up a couple of inches - I've cut it quite big and therefore the waist on the dress is lower than my actual waist!

So that should use up some of the material!

I'm not planning on a lot of running around, and I've pre shrunk the linen ... so hopefully it'll do the job for a while at least - has been, like you say, a good learning curve at the very least!

Made me realise I should buy a thimble if I'm going to keep up with the hand sewing .... ;) Thank you :)



Nigel
Post Knight
Posts: 1675
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:45 am
Location: Pontefract
Contact:

Postby Nigel » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:11 pm

cann't you just glue it or something ?


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

seamsmistress
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Postby seamsmistress » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:23 pm

Nigel wrote:cann't you just glue it or something ?


Glad to see that I'm not alone in the struggle for quality staff, 2d!



User avatar
Tuppence
Post Knight
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: chaos-world, west yorks
Contact:

Postby Tuppence » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:37 am

seamsmistress wrote:
Nigel wrote:cann't you just glue it or something ?


Glad to see that I'm not alone in the struggle for quality staff, 2d!


that would be his preferred option.

but then I've seen his sewing, so it'd probably be better that way!

As I said to his Mum - it's quite amazing really, how he can paint these tiny, tiny soldiers, and manage to be so ham-fisted at pretty much everything else... :roll:


"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."

Miss Piggy

RIP Edward the avatar cat.

Eric the well read
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Cloud 9

Postby Eric the well read » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:12 am

seamsmistress wrote:Glad to see that I'm not alone in the struggle for quality staff,


Hoi, I resent that! :wink:

Eric



Nigel
Post Knight
Posts: 1675
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:45 am
Location: Pontefract
Contact:

Postby Nigel » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:30 pm

me too

THEYA RE NOT SOLDIERS BUT FIGURES


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Postby lidimy » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:45 pm

I'm slightly concerned that I'm doing my gores wrong - I haven't had any trouble but maybe that's because they're so diddy?

All I did was cut out a triangle with a chopped off top, then sewed it down one side to the seam of the kirtle, measured the new length of the side, cut the other length of the kirtle seam accordingly, then sewed that on to the gore and side kirtle seam. (if that makes sense)

Is that a correct way of doing it?


'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
Tuppence
Post Knight
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: chaos-world, west yorks
Contact:

Postby Tuppence » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:19 am

for a side seam yes that's right.

but it's the magical and elusive v insert gore that we're all in search of (as in the kind where you cut a slit ind insert said gore).

which is probably one of the hardest sew-y things to get right, and why I say if you have a successful way, who cares if it's the 'right' way?


"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."

Miss Piggy

RIP Edward the avatar cat.

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Postby lidimy » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:59 pm

Ohhh I see where you're coming from.

No, I hadven't tried that type yet. And I shan't until I absolutely have to... :oops:


'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

Nigel
Post Knight
Posts: 1675
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:45 am
Location: Pontefract
Contact:

Postby Nigel » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:53 pm

still recon glue or staples


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

User avatar
RottenCad
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:50 am
Location: The M9. Or the A8. Or the M90. Or ...
Contact:

Postby RottenCad » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:56 pm

Nigel wrote:still recon glue or staples


You really need to ensure that the seam is flat, and on the bias. Use a half-jointed piece of plywood as a former at a 30deg angle behind the front side of the garment, so that it matches the required gore angle. Match up the fabric of the insert, aligned to the former ...

... then nail the b**ger to the wood!

TTFN!

Cad


In a democracy, it's your vote that counts; in feudalism, it's your Count that votes ...

Rottencad
Ordinary Member, The Company Of St Margaret
http://www.cosm.org.uk

User avatar
Alice the Huswyf
Post Knight
Posts: 1308
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:13 am
Location: Please do not distract the exhibit

Postby Alice the Huswyf » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:49 am

NICIE They are certainly not soldiers. (They can't buy you a drink and chat you up by suggesting that you are a nurse even though you have pointed out a dozen times that you are not.

They are not figures. (That is a column of bumber or a financial report).

Nor are they models. (They are all way under the height requirement ; being made of lead or plastic they cannot eat so therefore cannot acquire the required eating disorders to do cataolgue work, let alone catwalks. )

If they are representations of humans, representations that you spend hours preening and making look fine, that you love and play with lots and lots then they are dolls. Tiny, but dolls.

And if you don't play with them, but leave them on a shelf, lookng fine and preened and love them there - they are decorative dolls - but still dolls.

And don't try the whole battlefield creation / layout/ research and crafting thing to set the argument aside. That's just a big, flat doll's house, becuase it is where you move the furniture about , where all your dollies camp, play together and belong.





CAD you are wrong about the use of hammer and nails in setting gored seams. You need a boxwood mallet and cedarwood dowell pegs, finely sanded so that it doesn't pulll threads



User avatar
Colin Middleton
Absolute Wizard
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Postby Colin Middleton » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:05 pm

IS there a reason why you can't create a triancle with the edges felled, fell the edges on the slit and then but stitch them togeather (or whatever the fabric equivalent of a but stitch is)?


Colin

"May 'Blood, blood, blood' be your motto!"

Image

User avatar
Alice the Huswyf
Post Knight
Posts: 1308
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:13 am
Location: Please do not distract the exhibit

Postby Alice the Huswyf » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:17 pm

You can do that if the gore is let into the seam.

However, the one that causes the seamstress equivalent of below the belt retreat is the one that is let into a slit in the fabric: you run out of fabric at the point.



User avatar
RottenCad
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:50 am
Location: The M9. Or the A8. Or the M90. Or ...
Contact:

Postby RottenCad » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:23 pm

I'll have a look at my tunic tonight - I did manage one reasonably elegant solution, but I'm blowed if I can remember what it was!

I'm guessing though that the only practicable approach (ie one that doesn't have any bunching at the point) is going to be an overlapped flat seam - and I have no evidence for its use in the period.

Cad


In a democracy, it's your vote that counts; in feudalism, it's your Count that votes ...

Rottencad
Ordinary Member, The Company Of St Margaret
http://www.cosm.org.uk

User avatar
Sophia
Post Centurion
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:46 pm
Location: Camberwell, London
Contact:

Postby Sophia » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:43 pm

Right there is a solution but it is immensely time consuming.

A) Cut slit for gore and finish with rolled edge as you would for neck slit on shirt/shift.

B) Finish edges on gore (favour rolled edge myself).

C) Lay gore on slit and pin/tack into place with edges overlapped by suitable amount.

D) Whip down gore to garment and garment to gore along edges.

As I said tedious but will look beautiful

Soph :D


aka Thomasin Chedzoy, Tailor at Kentwell Hall

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Postby lidimy » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:02 pm

Sophia, what's a rolled edge? :D


'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
Sophia
Post Centurion
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:46 pm
Location: Camberwell, London
Contact:

Postby Sophia » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:25 pm

Rolled edge is where you make a vary tiny double hem, i.e. roll the edge of the fabric over. This can either be whipped (oversewn), felled or sewn with very small running stiches. Personally I favour the very small running stitch as it makes a nice flat edge which helps with assembly.

The neck slit on a shirt I am referring to is in MTA, p.48, fig.10 a, but with a minimum of re-inforcing at the mid-point to keep it sharp rather than rounded.

Hope this helps.

Soph :D


aka Thomasin Chedzoy, Tailor at Kentwell Hall


Return to “Costumes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests