What's this hat made of?

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sally
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What's this hat made of?

Postby sally » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:05 pm

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-b ... ber=NG6540

This is the well known Holbein portrait of a lady with a squirrel, and she's wearinga rather wonderful hat. Sometimes I look at it and think it looks like a padded coif in construction, sometimes I think it would work well in heavily felted knitting, sometimes I have no idea.

What do the Tudor costumers here theink, is there a general concensus on this one?



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Postby Uncle Bulgaria » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:12 pm

If you study the face, it would appear that the edges of the hat to face do look a little fluffy, not at all crisp which you would expect for linen.

To me it looks like it is felted and of a wool construction. So yes it probably would look fab felted and then quilted.


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lucy the tudor
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Ooh! I'd forgotten this one....

Postby lucy the tudor » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:36 pm

I had thought this would be an interesting felting project, idly once, as you do, then forgotten all about it.
It would be a fun one to make when I should be doing something more easily sold.........
My lad wanted to do some felting this afternoon after school, maybe it's a sign.
:wink:
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Re: Ooh! I'd forgotten this one....

Postby sally » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:41 pm

lucy the tudor wrote:I had thought this would be an interesting felting project, idly once, as you do, then forgotten all about it.
It would be a fun one to make when I should be doing something more easily sold.........
My lad wanted to do some felting this afternoon after school, maybe it's a sign.
:wink:
Lucy


It would be a lovely one to felt, technically fairly straightforward of you work on a flat resist for the first stage and if you went for varying thicknesses of fibre you might get that sort of quilted look into the bargain. :D Go for it!

I'm toying with trying a knitted then felted version, but suspect yours might work better :D



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Postby Tuppence » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:43 pm

It's fur.

the edges don't look fluffy to me in the way that felt is (it's a more looped fluffiness). this is distinctly hairy fluffiness.

And if you look, (in the v close up zoom), at the stripes, the shading is exactly the same as a fur wrap I once had - no idea what fur it was though.


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Postby Drachelis » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:46 pm

I think it is fur - specifically vair or squirrel!!!! squirrel tummies :shock:

The ribbing on it looks about the size of the pelts that Miranda and Dave have - they also, as it nears the top look slightly deeper cream going to light toffee colour.

Having said that I am sure that the less well off might have tried to gain the same look by felting.

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Postby Xioumi » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:03 pm

I have always thought of it as being made out of ermine pelts sans tails.
Amanda



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Postby Tuppence » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:06 pm

felting and felted knitting would work too though, am pretty sure.

and are obv the cheaper option for normal folk - if you could appear in a holbein portrait you weren't gonna be worrying about the price of a hat!


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Postby House of De Clifford » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:33 pm

Hi all,
looked at the picture in detail and it is certainly fur. If the picture is an acurate portrayal of the item then it is ermine. I did question the darker areas towards the rear of the headwear but then realised that it could quite possibly be artistic flair ! The cloth on her shoulders is white but darkens towards the rear edge to add depth to the picture, im assuming this is what has been done to the headwear to achieve the same effect.
It doesnt quite look like minivair and its definatly not white sable / mink (minivair would be too low class by this period and i can't see the sitter useing hand me downs for such a expensive commission painting)
Dave.
PS.. we have some lovely ermine in stock if you fancied replicating the real thing !! :D


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Postby Uncle Bulgaria » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:48 pm

See you learn something new everyday! i.e that this picture had a zoom function!!!! :roll: :roll:

Totally agree now, it's fur not felt.

Sorry all will try reading the viewing option first next time, but from a distance............... :oops:


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Postby Handbag » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:51 pm

definitley fur.

i also have an ermine wrap that is so similar.

also if you look at the squirrel and the way he is painted its a very similar brush stroke!



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Postby House of De Clifford » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:07 pm

It was probably painted with a squirrel tail brush!!!!! there's irony for you!!!!

Miranda


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Postby Sophia » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:16 pm

It is definitely fur - had a extra good peer at it when the Holbein exhibition was on. :D

I reckon it could be reproduced with felting or knitting, but would probably be more accurate if a felted base was created and then a covering added.

My personal initial thoughts on recreating it were actually in terms of layers of linen canvas with a fabric covering. If not using fur I would suggest velvet for high status and wool for lower status.

Sophia :D


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Postby Handbag » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:31 pm

House of De Clifford wrote:It was probably painted with a squirrel tail brush!!!!! there's irony for you!!!!

Miranda


:lol: :lol:



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Zoom great, result aw shucks.....

Postby lucy the tudor » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:18 pm

Oh well, at least I learned about the zoom function! I had only seen a small copy of this picture and had thought it was too smooth to be fur. I agree that in close up it has to be fur.
It will still be an interesting project in felt, and a lot cheaper than ermine.....
:oops:
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sally
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Postby sally » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:21 pm

I can't use the zoom function at work (its a programme thats blocked out) but now I'm home I shall peer at it merrily! Nice to get this one solved though :) There are some very silly hats at this date, was looking at another today of similar date that looks like a comedy sized white beret, much much larger than most 'flat caps' of the time usually seem to be, and worn with a very similar outfit to this one.



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Postby Sophia » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:57 pm

Ah, the comedy beret - can I put myself in line for one if you decide to try that one. Personal feelings again after having had a good peer are felt or felted knitting in that order of priority.

Soph :D


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Postby Laffin Jon Terris » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:03 pm

The hat in the Holbein is the basis for one of the hats in "A Knights Tale".

Its in the scene where the hero rides his horse into the church.


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