victorian underpants.

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madjon
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victorian underpants.

Post by madjon »

looking for a pattern for mens undergarments of the 1870's - 1880's nearest i have found so far is 1907, plenty of patterns for ladies victorian knickers but nothing for mens pants,anyone got a pattern?

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Post by frances »

Try googling the Vintage Pattern Library. It is based in the USA but he lady who runs it is ever so helpful. You can borrow a pattern or buy a copy of the original. She has masses of late Victorian etc patterns, but I have never needed to look for men's undies. (How sad for me!!)

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madjon
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Post by madjon »

had a look, not a lot on the underpants front,no pun, lots of womens though, there are some mens patterns but not covering viccy underpants,but did find an american article on underwear in florida, 73% of men wear womens underwear at least once, i dont think that helps but its an amusing article,
www.freshpair.com/in_the_news/sun_sentinel.html

i seem to have found the unstudied area of mid-late victorian mens underpants any one?

what know you of underpants?

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Post by frances »

Right then, try this one - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/corsetsandcrinolines/
This group is run by Lei, who is extremely knowledgeable on all things late Victorian and early 20th century with regards to undies. I have seen a lot of her collection - it did not have any men's undies in it at the time. But she might have acquired some by now. Anyway, she has a husband so she may have researched your area. Good luck and let us know !!

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madjon
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Post by madjon »

no answer from that site,
this site has victorian pants that look like 1950's army issue pants,
www.vintage shirt.co.uk
will keep looking, 1 pair of generic pants! is that it? may have to do some serious research in the much unrepresented victorian mens pants department,

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Shadowcat
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Post by Shadowcat »

Try and find a copy of a book by C. Willett Cunnington and Phillis Cunnington, called, I think "The History of Underclothes" (underwear?) It will at least show you what you should be looking for.

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madjon
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Post by madjon »

am now on an underpants quest the visage of victorian underpants will be found, have ordered book off web, and after a week of web searching found a picture of a victorian pair in colorado, http://www.althouse.blogspot.com/2005/0 ... pants.html
will now go hunting in the basement of the museum for pants, there must be some original ones somewhere, find references such as mark twain patenting the adjusting strap, but no illustrations or pictures, so time for museum trip me thinks, conservation curator gets some odd requests at times about what they have stored, still in the interests of authentic underpants,will go and see them tomorrow.

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Post by frances »

Ah, now that shape I do know. I have a pair of these in calico. Made by someone I met at a Victorian event some years ago, he makes/made them for his regiment. He also makes pretty braces. I know I can find these reproductions, but can I find the man who made them? Hmmm

I will ask Lei on your behalf if you cannot make contact with her. Do you have a deadline?

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madjon
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Post by madjon »

no deadline but after a week of searching through the web and other documents i seem to have acquired a strange fascination with the lack of information on victorian mens undergarments, have this need now to research and find out about them as it has struck me that there reallly isnt that much published on them, lots on night shirts and braes but not pants, i need to get out more,historical research is like tracking bananas in the long grass, you get the occasional clue a glimpse of something then it disappears again,and you mutter at whoever was writing x hundreds of years ago for not writing more,if you know someone who has more pants then that would be good for info ,and possibly pants, :)

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Post by frances »

Here is an interesting response from a costume historian:

I believe the reason Gentleman's underpants are so rare previous to late
Victorian period is because they typically did not wear any! From late 18th
C (and before??) through mid 19th C men's cotton or linen shirts were
considered underwear. There are a few examples of "long johns" during the 19th C., but this was an accomodation for warmth only. Men's shirts were meant to be worn with a vest (waistcoat) or jacket always over them - and the extra long length of these shirts were tucked around a gent's privates inside their trousers. I am not exactly sure when this fashion changed, certainly by the early 20th C.

Now that does make sense.

I have just taken a book out of the library on the Victorians and there is a pic of a knitted pair of long johns. Unfortunately it does not say whether they are men's or women's. However, they do have a front opening. Ladies cotton drawers have two side openings, if that is any guide. I will take a pic and post it over the weekend. I have plenty of underwear books here, but am very busy until the end of next week. I am happy to have a look through and see what I can come up with then, if you like.

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nutmeg_bec
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Post by nutmeg_bec »

Hi Jon et al

Had a brief chat with the parents last night. They remembered from childhood their grandfathers (and father in dad's case) wearing "all-in-ones"/"union suits"/"long johns"/"combinations". Apparently made in white flanalette (and not the stretchy stockinette used cWW2 and later). The men wore them down the mines for warmth, and mum said washing lines up and down the street always had them on since they took an age to dry. :lol:

I went and had a look at the Ageless patterns website, but only found drawers. I haven't given up looking yet though! There's always the costume pattern (Simplicity, I think), but I've no idea whether it is authentic/based on authentic items. Also, I'm going into work early on Monday, so I'll pop up to the costume store and see whether we've got any originals in Tredegar House - you could also drop the National Museum of Wales (St Fagans) a line, since their store is pretty big! :P

Bec

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Post by frances »

Your fairy godmother is here (well it is nearing that time when such person's appear). Received this reply:

I looked a quite a few museum originals when I designed men's Civil War
underwear patterns for Simplicity. There were sewing patterns for them in Godey's and the other ladies magazines as well. Some of my research (American Civil War era) is posted on the Simplicity web site.
http://www.simplicity.com/index.cfm?pag ... index.html
Look at the entries under "Pattern 5033 - the Underwear." There are several pictures of originals with details.

Right now I'm researching the 1700's and I've read notes from gentlemen
having their knee breeches made abroad, asking the tailor to allow room for undergarments.

This was from Martha McCain, who lives in the USA. If anyone would like to contact her pm me and I will pass on her email address privately.

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madjon
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Post by madjon »

shall pop down the market and get some material, bone buttons, bone in pants, theres a bad joke in there somewhere, shall start sewing and see what happens, victorian mens pants are an elusive article indeed! thanks for the link frances, have a collection of buttons think i may go for the bone ones, have spent a while making them now i have something to use them with.

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nutmeg_bec
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Post by nutmeg_bec »

http://www.vintageshirt.co.uk/

ok, so not the most authentic of underthings perhaps (in terms of material content specifically), but these are reasonably priced and look pretty good to me (suitable for WW1 and WW2 (etc) chaps too)!

Well, back to the search, LOL 8)

johnny crow
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Post by johnny crow »

the missus made me a couple of pairs of victorian with the undershirt,buttoned pants with drawstring waist,not sure where she got the pattern but can find out.I had a discussion with people before on American under drwers and red long johns were not around civil war,they were late 19th century,mens undies were usually 2 piece top and bottoms.
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