Dye disaster!!!! Mottled kirtle!!

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claireviolet
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Dye disaster!!!! Mottled kirtle!!

Postby claireviolet » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:17 pm

Mottled kirtle!!
Last edited by claireviolet on Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.



guthrie
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Postby guthrie » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:59 pm

I doubt it, instead would they not have tried to overdye with something else?
*Looks around for the dyers on the forum*



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Postby Handbag » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:06 pm

if its really that bad can you not use a dye stripper like this one from dylon?

http://www.dylon.co.uk/colourcentre/index.htm



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sally
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Postby sally » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:00 pm

What dye did you use and what fixative? That might help us make suggestions

If its unsavable though why not wear it as an underkirtle with a woollen gown over the top?



claireviolet
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Thanks everyone!

Postby claireviolet » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:22 pm

Hi there !

Thanks everyone! I am currently re - dyeing it - so should turn out very dark blue (I'll have to be a posh person!)
If that fails i'll use the dylon colour stripper as suggested.
It was just a plain old hand dye from dylon!
Thanks for the suggestions! Really appreciated!



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Postby frances » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:03 pm

Next time think about dyeing your fabric in the washing machine. So much less messy and so easy too for an article as large as a dress.



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ViscontesseD'Asbeau
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Postby ViscontesseD'Asbeau » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:11 pm

Apparently you can level blotchy dyelots by boiling up with something called Glauber's Salts, but I've never tried it so can't tell you whether it would work or not. Dyeing linen's always a trickier business than wool or silk. Never irretrievable though, if you could overdye it with something VERY dark???



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janes-wardrobe
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Postby janes-wardrobe » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:17 pm

Linen dyes very well in the washing machine with dylon - just make sure you follow the instructions carefully.

If you plan to dye with modern dyes there's little point in using anything other than the machine dyes as - in my experience - they almost always turn out wrong.

As for medieval people wearing blotchy clothes - well highly unlikely - the dyers guilds would be very unhappy about substandard fabrics being sold and no self respecting dyer would let blotchy cloth out of his dyehouse.


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ViscontesseD'Asbeau
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Postby ViscontesseD'Asbeau » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:47 pm

the dyers guilds would be very unhappy about substandard fabrics being sold and no self respecting dyer would let blotchy cloth out of his dyehouse.


You'd think so, but apparently at some point in the 16thC, English dyeing was so notoriously poor, that on the markets in Antwerp the undyed English cloth actually sold for higher prices than the dyed. :lol: This was put right by the early 17thC but at earlier times - was pretty rubbish, apparently.

Trade Guilds got more and more hog-tied by their own plethora of rules and regulations which meant that the end products weren't always what we fondly imagine them to be! Various successive plagues etc also took their toll on the expertise of the work-force. (According to the rather impressive 'Yorkshire Woollen and Worsted Industries', by Herbert Heaton).

Whilst I seem to spend my life telling people that our ancestors could do colour amazingly well - I think we're sometimes in danger of over romanticising and turning them into super heroes.

Whilst the good dyer will easily get 'poke yer eyes out' colours with vegetal dyes, (not that washed out 1970's khakis and pale shades people who have never seen vegtal dyeing imagine) - dyeing whole lengths of woven fabric, as opposed to dyeing in the wool, is a hugely difficult operation and blotchiness probably fairly standard.

Incidentally, the pale washed out colours from an 'exhausted' dye bath were often acceptable to use too, hence the pale blue 'plunkett' colour. Colours might well be bright and clear and vivid - but would still have limitations, and sometimes be problematic and it seems that our near neighbours in Europe often had this sussed before we did.



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Postby Random Mumblings » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:06 am

As a point of interest, Dylon cold water dyes work in the machine really well. The shade you get depends obviously how much fabric you use.

for about 2 metres of fabric I tend to use:

1-2 cold water dyes (you can shade mix with these dyes too very effectively)
300g salt
1 dye fix

How I do it is so:

Empty the dye powder into the empty w/m drum and using a wooden spoon bang the dye through the holes into the drum.
Do the same with the salt and the fix.
Put the damp fabric into the machine unfolded.
Bung the machine on a 40 wash.
Take fabric out and dry.

If your machine has a decent rinse cycle theres no need to run through the wash again, if it is a very dark dye run you probably need to run the machine on a 60 wash empty to get rid of any last bits of dye.

I've been using cold dyes in the machine for a good 5 or 6 years now without difficulty ;-)



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Sophia
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Postby Sophia » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:51 am

Thanks for that - a seriously useful tip there.


aka Thomasin Chedzoy, Tailor at Kentwell Hall

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fishwife
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Postby fishwife » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:49 pm

When Henry VIII fell out with the Pope we lost our ability to obtain alum - a somewhat crucial commodity in most of our dyeing. We therefore sent our cloth to the Low Countries undyed to be coloured and then re-imported. I don't think we did mottled dyeing as implied above. Woad dyeing would still be achievable as the mordant isn't needed.

If you have worked for 7 years as an apprentice and then 7 years as a journeyman doing nothing but dyeing I think your standards as a master dyer would be quite high - what happened to the apprentices mistakes though I know not! (Perhaps that's what the pedlars got to sell.)

One thing I am certain about - they didn't use dylon

Best wishes,
Deb


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Alice the Huswyf
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Postby Alice the Huswyf » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:21 pm

I firmly agree about using multiple tins - particulary on linen or wool - as you get a different take up from the target cotton and wood-pulp fibres.

The hot dye tinlets used to have machine dying instructions on them until the Dylon marketing department realised that if you put the dye in a big box with the fixative and labelled it 'hand dye' or Machine dye' people would buy it in preference, thinking that it would be simpler. You still need to add salt. (Or vinegar for wool if you are using the tinlets).
However, the new packets for dark colour (black, navy, choclate and olive drab) are excellent - as long as (and this goes for all dyes) you use it with the correct fabrics

The secret to really good, even hand dying is to ignore the 'stir for 15 minutes and leave to soak, turning occassionally' and keep the fabric moving for the whole hour that it is soaking in the colour bath.


Is it 'coz I is middewl clarse, aih?

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Alice the Huswyf
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Postby Alice the Huswyf » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:22 pm

I firmly agree about using multiple tins - particulary on linen or wool - as you get a different take up from the target cotton and wood-pulp fibres.

The hot dye tinlets used to have machine dying instructions on them until the Dylon marketing department realised that if you put the dye in a big box with the fixative and labelled it 'hand dye' or Machine dye' people would buy it in preference, thinking that it would be simpler. You still need to add salt. (Or vinegar for wool if you are using the tinlets).
However, the new packets for dark colour (black, navy, choclate and olive drab) are excellent - as long as (and this goes for all dyes) you use it with the correct fabrics

The secret to really good, even hand dying is to ignore the 'stir for 15 minutes and leave to soak, turning occassionally' and keep the fabric moving for the whole hour that it is soaking in the colour bath.


Is it 'coz I is middewl clarse, aih?

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janes-wardrobe
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Postby janes-wardrobe » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:30 pm

Hi there Deb - yes I know that the medieval dyers didn't have dylon and to be honest I feel that if you can't buy what you want ready coloured you might as well do the job right - BUT if you're in a hurry a packet of dylon in the machine does the job...

I used to use the excuse of not enough space to dye things authentically - now I have the time and space I realise I never had the inclination either :lol:

What I want, what I really really want is a price for some nice dark blue wool... pm me

ooh and at what stage should I harvest walnut husks for dyeing? The walnuts are very nearly ripe...


currently available for costume and corset commissions mail me on janes.wardrobe@gmail.com
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fishwife
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Postby fishwife » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:45 am

Try them now! I have already started collecting and am getting really good browns. The best time is when the hulls are still green - put them in to soak asap after picking and leave them for a few days. Once the hulls have oxidized and turned brown it's too late to get a good colour, they need to be green.

Will pm you later!

TTFN,
Deb


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janes-wardrobe
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Postby janes-wardrobe » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:37 pm

Tomorrow I'll go collecting walnuts then! Last year when we were collecting the ripe fruit my hands and nails got so dark just from the few husks that were on some of the fruit.

I just put them in water? how much dyestuff do you need to wool? and are they good for linen and silk?

And do I have to boile stuff up? I'm getting all excited about having a go - perhaps I do have the inclination after all!!!


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