Decent Medieval Hose

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Nigel
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Postby Nigel » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:33 pm

Hose are one of these things that do require a certain amount of measuring aND fitting


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:11 pm

Out of curiosity who did they do this in the past?

The Paston letters mention buying and sending hose on a couple of occasions and I, perhaps foolishly, assumed that as these were being requested by John on Norfolk his brother John in London was just picking him up a couple of pairs from Hose 'R' Us and posting them off with the barrels of crossbow bolts and poleaxes.

Did you send along a pair of old ones and say I want more like this but tighter?


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Phil the Grips
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Postby Phil the Grips » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:34 pm

My take is that you'd have them made to perfect measure if you could afford it or, at a lower level, cos we know folk bought them "off the peg", that they would be made elsewhere at a generic size then be nipped and tucked locally to your individual taste or purse- just like a commercial tailor today.


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Postby janes-wardrobe » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:02 am

I make footed hose, stirrup hose, single leg hose whatever you want really. I make them fitted - I don't like the baggy look. I try not to do too much groping but there is only so much you can do without a fitting. I've just made a pair for a friend in North Shields based on measurements along - he's just got back to me to say they're a perfect fit. :D

I don't use jersey. I don't prewash the wool - if you want that you have to do it yoursef. I recommennd hand washing only and NO tumble drying EVER. I can use fabric supplied by yourself or I can source fabric - however since I moved to France the selection of wool is small - nice quality but VERY limited colours.

If you are interested chek out my website, pm me or email me janes.wardrobe@gmail.com


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Postby janes-wardrobe » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:05 am

Oh and postage to the UK should be under £10 - depending on the weight of wool used and because it's EEC there's no duty to pay...


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Karen Larsdatter
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Postby Karen Larsdatter » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:55 am

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:Out of curiosity who did they do this in the past?

I'm not sure what the question is. :?: A hosier would be the person who made and/or sold hose.

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:The Paston letters mention buying and sending hose on a couple of occasions and I, perhaps foolishly, assumed that as these were being requested by John on Norfolk his brother John in London was just picking him up a couple of pairs from Hose 'R' Us and posting them off with the barrels of crossbow bolts and poleaxes.

Well, not so much Hose 'R' Us, but the hosers wyth þe crokyd bak next to þe Blak Freyrs gate wyth-in Ludgate; John Pampyng knowyth hym well j-now.

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:Did you send along a pair of old ones and say I want more like this but tighter?

Or you request a piece of cloth for hose (Also I beseche yow to sende me a hose clothe, on for þe halydays of sum colore and a-nothyr for þe workyng days, how corse so euer it be it makyth no matyr), and have them done up by your friendly neighborhood hosier.

(See http://larsdatter.com/paston.htm for these & other bits where the Pastons go on and on about their clothes.)



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Colin Middleton
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Postby Colin Middleton » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:04 pm

A thought occured about the 'saggy bum' problem with hoes last night. Weren't hoes normally lined in the seat? If that's the case, would that not help them keep their shape some-what?


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Postby janes-wardrobe » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:27 pm

I line hose to top of thigh level with linen and this does help to reduce bum sag as the linen doesn't stretch as much as wool. (I do cut it on the bias.)

Take a close look at historical artwork when men are doing a lot of bending they tend to be depicted with the back points undone - this probably helps. Also - in the high fashion imagery the men wearing tight hose are rarely depicted sitting - and if they are it's more perching than sitting - this probably reduces bum sag as well.

So three ways to reduce bum sag - line the bum with linen, loosen your back points and don't sit down :lol:


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Postby Jim » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:33 pm

janes-wardrobe wrote:So three ways to reduce bum sag - line the bum with linen, loosen your back points and don't sit down :lol:


Or cheat and use elasticated points at the back! :D


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Postby janes-wardrobe » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:30 pm

Jim wrote:
janes-wardrobe wrote:So three ways to reduce bum sag - line the bum with linen, loosen your back points and don't sit down :lol:


Or cheat and use elasticated points at the back! :D


Or buy boiled jersey hose! :shock:


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Colin Middleton
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Postby Colin Middleton » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:51 pm

I'll bet that you can learn to tie that centre back point really quicky with a little practice.


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Postby Jim » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:00 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:I'll bet that you can learn to tie that centre back point really quicky with a little practice.


Nonsense. I'm going to develop rear points constructed of bungee cord.


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Postby janes-wardrobe » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:08 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:I'll bet that you can learn to tie that centre back point really quicky with a little practice.

Actually I've discvered a way of tying points that's really quick to do, to undo, is totally secure and looks exactly like the points on paintings.

I'll happily show anyone who's interested in seeing it at the March re-enactors market. :wink:


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Postby Jim » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:15 pm

janes-wardrobe wrote:
Colin Middleton wrote:I'll bet that you can learn to tie that centre back point really quicky with a little practice.

Actually I've discvered a way of tying points that's really quick to do, to undo, is totally secure and looks exactly like the points on paintings.

I'll happily show anyone who's interested in seeing it at the March re-enactors market. :wink:



Damn, there goes my entrepreneurial idea! I would have been rich! Dragon's Den would've handed me MILLIONS!!!!




Actually, the way I do them up at the moment is to bend over while my better half does them up, so when I stand up straight there's enough slack for me to be able to sit down later on without bustin' me points.


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Postby janes-wardrobe » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:57 pm

Jim wrote:Actually, the way I do them up at the moment is to bend over while my better half does them up, so when I stand up straight there's enough slack for me to be able to sit down later on without bustin' me points.


but then don't you get hose creep and risk torn crotch?


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Postby Jim » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:04 pm

janes-wardrobe wrote:
Jim wrote:Actually, the way I do them up at the moment is to bend over while my better half does them up, so when I stand up straight there's enough slack for me to be able to sit down later on without bustin' me points.


but then don't you get hose creep and risk torn crotch?


They do up sufficiently tight round the middle that they don't "creep" (I assume you mean "fall down over time"). The crotch-ripping risk is eliminated by the slack in the rear points.


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Postby janes-wardrobe » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:20 pm

Jim wrote:They do up sufficiently tight round the middle that they don't "creep" (I assume you mean "fall down over time"). The crotch-ripping risk is eliminated by the slack in the rear points.


That's definately what I mean by hose creep.
The men in my life swear by high leg fitting and well tied hose to prevent hose creep and thus crotch rip - so maybe it's to do with styling and personal preferences as well :)


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Postby James Bretlington » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:06 pm

You have to have the points slack in the back, they are nearly impossible to wear any other way.

To be honest, $114 for post from the US for the Hiostorice Enterprises stuff sounds a lot, and I did not like the split hose I got from them before, as they had a twist in the fabric that was not correct. I will however look at costs for postage to the UK, and I'll let people know, as I may be able to post on if people really want me to.



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Postby janes-wardrobe » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:36 pm

James Bretlington wrote:You have to have the points slack in the back, they are nearly impossible to wear any other way.


I know I'm a girl and I don't wear hose - but the men who wear the hose I make don't usually have their back points loose.

I recently had this comment from a happy mail order customer...

"...those hose are great - fit really well, feel really good... don't know why everyone else needs a fitting before making hose that don't-quite-fit-properly!"


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Postby James Bretlington » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:08 pm

You actually said it yourself earlier on, unless you don't have any bending over to do, having the back points loose is a great help in bending over.

Now, this time I'm wearing wool hose (I cheated and wore linen ones last year), so I may not have as much of a problem this year.



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Postby janes-wardrobe » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:23 pm

Yes, I did say that - but most of the time the points can be kept fastened. It does also depend on how fashionable tight you wear your hose - the more fashionable you are the less likely you are to be doing hard graft that involves much bending. :D

Wool is definately stretchier than linen - so you'll probably find less need to loosen your back points.

Another thing that I find makes a huge difference is the type of sewing - hand sewn seems to stretch more than machine sewing but if mahine sewn a small zig-zag helps with the stretch of the seams.


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Postby Dave B » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:37 pm

janes-wardrobe wrote:Or buy boiled jersey hose! :shock:


Lets see if I understand this. Feel free anyone to correct me when I'm wrong, I'm sure you will.

Origionaly (in the later medieval period) some hose were Made to measure, some were 'off the peg'

People doing real hard manual labour are generaly pictured working without hose, or with high single leg hose.

everyone else is wearing pretty tight hose.

We have various theories why they get away with off the peg tight hose, but one is that they had specific very stretchy weaves of wool, better for the job than what most reenactors hose is made from.

Historic enterprises seem to be using boiled jersey for thier hose, which is very stretchy. it isn't the medieval solution, but once the nap is raised it looks like it is, and people who have their hose seem very pleased.

Am I about right so far?

So my question is, are any UK costumers offering this solution for their customers who are too busy for an extensive groping session? if not is there a reason why not?


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Postby janes-wardrobe » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:07 pm

I can't answer for other costumiers - but I strive to make clothes in the fabrics that are appropriate to the period. (Whichever period I am making for) No if a customer supplied me with boiled wool I would make hose for them from that - I would not however offer it as part of my normal range. I don't know of any UK costumiers who make hose in boiled wool jersey.

If measurements are good in the first place then minimal groping is required. A fitting is better for any garment in any period (today included) if you want things to feel and look great. If you're prepared to accept clothing off the peg then the fit will not be as great. It might be - but that's a matter of luck. Even with the best measurements in the world there are variations in body shape that mean that clothes will fit people differently - even if they have the same basic body measurements.

So the choice is yours - either take pot luck and get someone to make your hose from your measurements in the hope that they'll be a good fit. Have someone take your measurements, make your hose and expect to have a fitting (or two) Or buy off the peg and wear hose that fit where they touch.

Hose do not have to be made by wrapping the fabric around the leg - a good pattern can be made from measurements alone - but you need a good few measurements that have to be taken accurately. Ideally though you will still need a fitting to detrmine any minor adjustments.


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Postby James Bretlington » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:18 pm

janes-wardrobe wrote:Another thing that I find makes a huge difference is the type of sewing - hand sewn seems to stretch more than machine sewing but if mahine sewn a small zig-zag helps with the stretch of the seams.


Good, as I have a combination of both zig zag machine stich for the inside seams, and anything else has been hand stitched. :D




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