A huscarl warrior

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Housecarl
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A huscarl warrior

Postby Housecarl » Mon May 05, 2008 9:25 pm

Hi again folks

Here's my rendition of a huscarl warrior!
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huscarl- texted.jpg



Nigel
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Postby Nigel » Tue May 06, 2008 10:29 pm

Its Brendan :D actually no because Mr Crowbar is better equipped than this

Sorry matey nasty axe as in wrong maille too short in the sleeves shield wrong way up and the body proportions look off

apart from that not bad


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby Housecarl » Wed May 07, 2008 7:07 am

I did say "my rendition" -didn't copy it or try to go back in time to get every chink of chainmail!

I can accept artistic criticism (even though there was no standard 'uniform' ) and maybe you're right about some of this, maybe not (shield, mail, perspective, IMO).

Some manners would have been nice -and your sentence was hard to read. Apart from that, thank you :wink:



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Postby Nigel » Wed May 07, 2008 9:45 am

Housecarl wrote:I did say "my rendition" -didn't copy it or try to go back in time to get every chink of chainmail!

I can accept artistic criticism (even though there was no standard 'uniform' ) and maybe you're right about some of this, maybe not (shield, mail, perspective, IMO).

Some manners would have been nice -and your sentence was hard to read. Apart from that, thank you :wink:


Didn't say you did the whole thing looks liek a mikes model to me

I don't do art I do this period and you got things wrong so what youa re saying that you dont expect criticsm well tough if you do anything and are not goosd enough expect criticsm simple really


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Wed May 07, 2008 7:07 pm

Ways and means, omae, ways and means.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

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Postby Nigel » Wed May 07, 2008 7:51 pm

and since when have I been subtle my Irish compadre


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby nathan » Thu May 08, 2008 8:37 am

To add further fat to the fire I'd have to agree with Nigel on the axe, it's glaringly inaccurate for the overall presentation. Kite shields are shown point up when slung in every case I'm aware of, so that would theoretically be the norm.

The mail length is debatable, you might think about representing a ventail as these would have been in vogue with the integral coif.

Beyond that a nice impression, i can see where Nigel is coming from with regards to proportion (especially the feet in relation to ankles, if the trousers are tight (as they should be) he has very thick lower legs and huge wide feet), very stocky lad there (then again Angus McBride used similar proportions), nice technique to represent the mail.

But an order of magnitude on my stick-man artistry, so hat off to you sir.
N.


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Postby Housecarl » Thu May 08, 2008 4:35 pm

Nigel wrote:
Housecarl wrote:I did say "my rendition" -didn't copy it or try to go back in time to get every chink of chainmail!

I can accept artistic criticism (even though there was no standard 'uniform' ) and maybe you're right about some of this, maybe not (shield, mail, perspective, IMO).

Some manners would have been nice -and your sentence was hard to read. Apart from that, thank you :wink:


Didn't say you did the whole thing looks liek a mikes model to me

I don't do art I do this period and you got things wrong so what youa re saying that you dont expect criticsm well tough if you do anything and are not goosd enough expect criticsm simple really


Can barely read you're illiterate scrawl

I AM good enough by general concencus, but you ain't good at English grammar, spelling and punctuation...or communication skills...or manners....etc.



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Postby Housecarl » Thu May 08, 2008 4:38 pm

nathan wrote:To add further fat to the fire I'd have to agree with Nigel on the axe, it's glaringly inaccurate for the overall presentation. Kite shields are shown point up when slung in every case I'm aware of, so that would theoretically be the norm.

The mail length is debatable, you might think about representing a ventail as these would have been in vogue with the integral coif.

Beyond that a nice impression, i can see where Nigel is coming from with regards to proportion (especially the feet in relation to ankles, if the trousers are tight (as they should be) he has very thick lower legs and huge wide feet), very stocky lad there (then again Angus McBride used similar proportions), nice technique to represent the mail.

But an order of magnitude on my stick-man artistry, so hat off to you sir.
N.


Thank Nathan

Intelligent and worthwhile criticism, not down to schoolchild levels to show off (unlike some obnoxious and touchy little boy!)

Yes I have made one or two 'errors' regarding historical accuracy, but I drew it from memory, unintended for anything other than my own pleasure (at that time!)

Cheers for your input.

ps. Has anyone any ideas what the huscarls did look like?



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Postby Medicus Matt » Thu May 08, 2008 5:27 pm

Housecarl wrote:


ps. Has anyone any ideas what the huscarls did look like?


You could take a look at the Bayeux Tapestry, I think you'll find that there are a few on there.


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Postby Nigel » Thu May 08, 2008 8:11 pm

Housecarl wrote:
nathan wrote:To add further fat to the fire I'd have to agree with Nigel on the axe, it's glaringly inaccurate for the overall presentation. Kite shields are shown point up when slung in every case I'm aware of, so that would theoretically be the norm.

The mail length is debatable, you might think about representing a ventail as these would have been in vogue with the integral coif.

Beyond that a nice impression, i can see where Nigel is coming from with regards to proportion (especially the feet in relation to ankles, if the trousers are tight (as they should be) he has very thick lower legs and huge wide feet), very stocky lad there (then again Angus McBride used similar proportions), nice technique to represent the mail.

But an order of magnitude on my stick-man artistry, so hat off to you sir.
N.


Thank Nathan

Intelligent and worthwhile criticism, not down to schoolchild levels to show off (unlike some obnoxious and touchy little boy!)

Yes I have made one or two 'errors' regarding historical accuracy, but I drew it from memory, unintended for anything other than my own pleasure (at that time!)

Cheers for your input.

ps. Has anyone any ideas what the huscarls did look like?


Sorry I assume you are you havign a poke at me ?

If you cannot handle criticsim dont put your picture or anything up I stand by all I said your research is flawed,


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu May 08, 2008 10:57 pm

Mate of mine in the army was nicknamed horse carl cos of his huge todger-I believe there are pictures of him on certain sites I would never venture near being a good catholic boy.


OSTENDE MIHI PECUNIAM!

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Postby Nigel » Fri May 09, 2008 8:51 pm

Housecarl wrote:
Nigel wrote:
Housecarl wrote:I did say "my rendition" -didn't copy it or try to go back in time to get every chink of chainmail!

I can accept artistic criticism (even though there was no standard 'uniform' ) and maybe you're right about some of this, maybe not (shield, mail, perspective, IMO).

Some manners would have been nice -and your sentence was hard to read. Apart from that, thank you :wink:


Didn't say you did the whole thing looks liek a mikes model to me

I don't do art I do this period and you got things wrong so what youa re saying that you dont expect criticsm well tough if you do anything and are not goosd enough expect criticsm simple really


Can barely read you're illiterate scrawl

I AM good enough by general concencus, but you ain't good at English grammar, spelling and punctuation...or communication skills...or manners....etc.


YES I KNOW THATS BECAUSE I AHVE DYSLEXIA DEPITE THIS IAM HOWEVER GOOD ENOUGH TO HOLD DOWN A RATHER DEMANDING JOB FOR AN INTERNATIONAL COMPANY I AHD LOGGED IN TO POINT YOU TOWARS DOME SOURCES WONT BOTHER NOW


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby 'Banastre' » Fri May 09, 2008 9:09 pm

I'll be nice :)

I like how you've rendered the maile, wood grain and his expression - very well done and the shading gives it a good depth.
On the body proportion part, perhaps purchasing a mannequin would help? Just a small one to sit on your desk. It's helped me wonders for posing people.

Post more!
Do you have a Deviantart gallery where I can look at more art of yours?


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Postby Phil the Grips » Sat May 10, 2008 8:25 am

[mod]Gentlemen- please act nicely. Calm it down to an acceptable level and critique the artwork and accuracy, not each other, or simply walk away from the thread.[/mod]


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Postby Alan_F » Sat May 10, 2008 11:18 am

Speaking as someone who does Art History.... The overall impression could have been improved if it wasn't done with pencil, colour would have been better for this. It is executed very well, although more light and less shade would have helped.

On the authenticity score - not too good I'm afraid, the axe is a glaring problem, if you're going to do something historical get the details right before you start!. Some elementary research on the chosen period can help - there are always groups with authentic kit who can show you their research and who are more than willing to help out.


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Postby Fox » Sun May 11, 2008 7:45 am

Please don't be put off, it's very good work.

Nigel (who won't be shouting on here again, will you Nigel?) is actually a decent bloke, and very knowledgable, if a little blunt. This period of history is "his baby", don't take it personally.

The general historical critique given here should be helpful....

I'd like to see more, you clearly have a talent.
Good historical artists are hard to find.



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Postby Nigel » Sun May 11, 2008 10:54 am

Fox wrote:Nigel (who won't be shouting on here again, will you Nigel?)



Actually if I feel the need to defend myself against a personal assault yes I will. I stand by what I have said.

I believed that there were rules on moderation which you do not appear to be applying.


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby Dave B » Sun May 11, 2008 12:36 pm

Come on Nigel, You were really ill mannered right off the mark. Being right doesn't excuse being rude.

You can't be surprised when the other chap is ever ruder back. And you can't expect him to be moderated when you weren't


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Postby Fox » Sun May 11, 2008 2:30 pm

Nigel wrote:I believed that there were rules on moderation which you do not appear to be applying.


For the record, I was not moderating, otherwise it would have been marked as such.

I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

I'll respond to your PM, Nigel.



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Postby Gerald ye Herald » Sun May 11, 2008 3:20 pm

Housecarl speaking as a amatuer artist your 'Rendition' is quite good
compared to some. As to authenticity don't worry about it, I do lots of
sketches as I get ideas flooding in and have to get them on paper asap.

Otherwise at my age its gone if I blink, the fact is you have a skill many would envy and like many other artists its freedom of expression.

Many of my renditions are far from authentic as they are original ideas.
And besides choose what others thinks I 'm happy with them.

My big problem has always been 'Over imagination' especially with scifi
stuff. Sadly I've had to shut it out completely or loose sleep.

Much against my sons advice who thinks I should capitalise on it.
I may just do that before I get too old :wink:


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Postby Goose » Mon May 12, 2008 5:54 pm

Art is subjective, some people like it some do not.

This was posted on a public forum and critique was asked for.

While the critique from Nigel was abrupt and possibly confrontational it was a critique.

Housecarl wrote:Can barely read you're illiterate scrawl

I AM good enough by general concencus, but you ain't good at English grammar, spelling and punctuation...or communication skills...or manners....etc.


I do not think t is your place to comment on others Grammer or spelling with lines like that!

If you are that touchy about comments on the art you do, then do not post in on an open forum.

Now that I have been polite, I will be rude. Most people can see straight away that Nigels post are poor in spelling. You are able to see straight away that his word structure is poor to the extreme. Did it not occur to your tiny little closed mind that he may be dyxlexic. Nigel criticised your work, you were personally rude.

Mods, you have kicked people off this forum for less. Case of double standards here I think. Pull finger guys, this daisy chain brigade is the main reason I do not venture on this site much these days.


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Postby Dave B » Mon May 12, 2008 6:56 pm

Goose wrote:Mods, you have kicked people off this forum for less. Case of double standards here I think. Pull finger guys, this daisy chain brigade is the main reason I do not venture on this site much these days.


Well, I don't think thats true, the only people I know of getting kicked off got themselved deliberately kicked of on a matter of principle (not that I disagree with doing something like that, principle is important) and I certainly wouldn't be a part of any policy of 'you can't be rude to someone just in case they have a disability'.

All that has happened here is that two grown men have been rude to one another and are obth cross about it, and I think it's a bit disproportionate if thier freinds are getting involved both publicly and privately to make a fight of it.


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Postby Fox » Mon May 12, 2008 8:18 pm

[MOD]
STOP the personal comments.
Or I think we may have to lock this thread.

Nigel's original comments may have been seen as blunt, but accurate.

Housecarl's response could be seen as the same, although being more of a personal nature I would have warned him of his error, had Nigel not defended himself quite adequately.

I hoped, without Moderator involvement, it might stop there. I felt it was largely a misunderstanding anyway.

I hope, with Moderator involvement, it will stop here.
Play nicely, please
[/MOD]



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...

Postby Brand » Sun May 18, 2008 5:28 pm

OK- huscarl or houscarl or (several other spellings) - a role I play in my dark age group. Specifically for hastings we are talking almost a uniform.

My current kit is close but still work in progress - see

http://battlefields.wetpaint.com/

I acknowledge I am still some way off...

1. Helmet with decoration
2. Riveted maille (ideally longer split with slightly longer sleeves and coif).
3. Embroidered collar, sleeves and hem on tunic
4. Undertunic should be visible at sleeves and hem (I know :oops: )
5. For Hastings shoes not boots and winningas (leg bindings of Tablet Woven Braid)
6. Facial hair 8)
7. Daneaxe (not shown in my pic) with silver inlay/ decoration
8. Decorated sword with scabbard furniture.
9. Waistbelt with gold/ silver/ bronze fittings (got a lovely silver one :!: )
10. Pattern welded seax in decorated sheath.
11. Christian (damn!) jewellery (need to work on this...)
12. Kiteshield (and yes pointy end up!) should be curved with or without small decorative boss.

Kit guides for Hastings often state we should be wearing cloaks on the battlefield- seems odd and no evidence that I am aware but I have a light one with silver brooch if necessary now.

http://www.igshistoryonline.co.uk/Image ... Harold.jpg

Guy dropping axe must be a huscarl- note sleeves are not to wrist on maille. Lower arms appear to have bindings- a feature I am currently working on.

Also note saxons seem to be wearing coifs but no face piece, wheras norman mounted knights do have face pieces.

Braces for reactions....



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Postby Brendan C » Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:17 pm

Nigel wrote:Its Brendan :D actually no because Mr Crowbar is better equipped than this


Crowbar ?!?!?

Brendan C




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