Tax and VAT

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Pete the Pong
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Tax and VAT

Postby Pete the Pong » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:32 pm

Hi there everyone
As suggested by Neibelungen am starting a seperate Tax and VAT thread, as all the useful info seems to be gertting scattered around. Also I've asked for a "sticky" to be added which I'll try to keep edited with accurate information rather than the equally useful (but not necessarily legally valid) personal opinions and experiences.
Personally one of the best tips I had from an accountant was to keep my records up to date DAILY. I now have a system where each day I staple all my reciepts together onto a weekly sheet of A4. Like that at the end of the year I have only got 52 pieces of paper to worry about, not hundreds.


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Postby Shadowcat » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:53 pm

I thoroughly recommend a book called "The Tax Tracker". A4, one side diary, plus incoming money. Facing page outgoings of all kinds, travel, expenses etc. Every month there is a totalling page, and at the back is a yearly total. I have been using one for about 8 years, and it makes life easier for that once a year moment when you do your tax return. I keep all the receipts in the appropriate pages for the year, then put them all in an envelope once I have done the accounts.

There are other versions of this, but it was recommended to me - can't remember who by. But as Pete says, the trick is to update it every day or at least every week, (and once a month too - the bit I forget sometimes!)

They are late in printing this year, as the latest one should be out, but this is the contact info. (No freebies coming my way for the advert, unfortunately.) If you e-mail them with your name ands address now, they will put you on the database and notify you of the publication date and cost. I used to get mine from Rymans, but I don't know if they still sell them There would not be any in stock yet anyway.

William Clowes Ltd.
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Neibelungen
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Postby Neibelungen » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:34 pm

I couldn't agree more.

Keeping track of bills and invoices regularly is a habit everyone should get into. Nothing is worse than trying to complete somebodies tax return for them for a whole year, two days before the £100 fine deadline.

For those computer minded, Quickbooks, Sage Instant Accounts and even Microsoft Money (hack-spit), are all usefull for simplifying records and making it easier to input. Plus they have the advantage of printing your invoices out for you. Unless serious ( or have the anal accounting gene lurking) you don't need to wory about double entry accounting.

A spreadsheet package is pretty easy to layout, just listing bills on one sheet, invoices on another etc... It allows you to keep notes alongside entries for reference and does all the adding up. If you havn't got Excell, Open office is a free alternative and the spreadsheets on it are getting better each year.

That said, once youre turning over £12,000 plus a year you do need to keep are more systematic set of records. Once you start having to send your return to an accountant, you save a fortune in fees if he doesn't have to fight through every entry in a mountain of paper.

My own approach is a A4 ringbinder with 1 or 2 sets of month dividers. Invoices paid by cheque or credit holepunched into each month. Cash reciepts and payments into a clear plastic pocket in each month, and then stappled to a weekly summary sheet. Each invoice or bill I write the cheque number and date paid on it, so I don't have to hunt out through every cheque stub or bank statement.

Invoices sent to customers can either be grouped at the back, or put into each month along with bank statements and other forms. Spare pocket at the rear for all the extras found afterwards or lost, so they can be added into the book.

Store all the unfiled paperwork in a box or some system to keep it all together. (draws, desk trays etc). Then , either Sunday evening or 1st Sunday of the month, collect them up and process them into your official booking system

Usually I collect up all the reciets and bills either monthly or weekly, write the details out into either a ledger book as Shadow suggested or computer system (remember to back up computer data regularly though as a crash could mean starting all over again !!!). Then once you've written out the details, file them into the A4 binder.
A sumary sheet for each month/week goes into the front of every month section, and a month summary at the front of the binder updated once each month is finished. If you loose your bookeeping ledger or computer file, you have all your reacords summarised already and just need to add in the figured without having to go through everything again piece by piece.

That way each month or week is processed completely from a pile of paper into a recod set and can be considered 'closed' , finished or sorted.

If you use a computer system, then printouts are stored in the same place and you can keep your back-up copies on disk or Cd with your binder.

Then, come the end of the year, all you have to do is read off all the summaries, total them up, add in the few missing and found bits of paper from the back and your tax return is written all by itself practically.

I tend to keep a second binder with all order forms and correspondence grouped together so I can refer back to anything if needed.

That's my approach, but then my brother is an accountant.

One binder for each year, and kept for 7 years as that's the tax standard they demand you keep records for.
Plus you have an organized system for keeping all those pieces of paper, a central folder to refer back to and somewhere to file all those bloody offical forms.

"Accountacy... compensating for the of the second law of thermodynamics. "



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Postby sally » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:56 pm

I'm currently running a very simple computer based list of incomings and outgoings, identifying sales under a handful of typical headings for me (books, soap, costume, etc), with any paper receipts and copies of invoices filed in the same order in a ringbinder. Each month this is totted up to show me money in and money out. Thats about it so far for finesse. Its doing the trick at the moment, don't think I'm quite ready for a commerical computer programme version though. I'm also not quite sure what I'd do if they wanted to inspect the sums as whilst I very carefully keep receipts, every now and then there will be something without an official receipt.

Like the idea of the Tax Tracker diary though, that sounds very useful for developing good admin habits.



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Postby david smith » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:40 pm

I'm so fed up and bored of accountancy that I do the absolute minimum to get by - ex-Chartered Accountant :roll:

I throw all my paid receipts and the few invoices I produce into a draw in my office, the unpaid ones sit in the In Tray.

Every three months I have to do the VAT return, which stops the annual ritual being quite so painful. Even if I do leave that until January - depending how I feel!

I use Excel, 6 columns - date, gross amount, VAT, net amount, category, supplier name. Sort through the bits of paper into different piles according to type such as Advertising, Stationery so I can avoid lots of typing, as Excel will happily copy and paste. Use a simple formula for the VAT and the Net, and just blank it out for those with no VAT. Data / Sort is quite useful. Insert a few blank lines and some sub-totals if you want.

That's the Expenditure sorted - my annual accounts are simply 4 VAT Returns put into one spreadsheet.

Income - derived directly from my Bank Statements.

As a sole trader I am under no legal requirement to have any other sort of sets of books no matter what the VAT inspector or the Tax Inspector might "like" me to have. This works for me, and it was quite enough to get me through a tax Inspection and Investigation the other year (nasty business, don't recommend them, they go into a level of detail that I was amazed by, so make sure you're not running a Bentley on income of £4,000 a year ... :lol: :lol: )

Go with what ever suits you that gives you the results you need, and a level of analysis that helps you run your business. Don't spend money on an accountant - mostly it is money wasted, buy a copy of Intuit's Tax Cal, the help screens are better than Deloitte's Tax Dept. as they are up to date each year and do not spend three hours each day in the Cheshire Cheese! About £25, dead simple to use.

Best wishes
David

(Who could have just stuck a brass plate up and charged people £350 a go to do the SA Tax Returns, which take all of ten minutes for most simple businesses...)


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Postby Neibelungen » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:12 pm

Sally,

If you don't have a reciept for something, simply put in a page detailing the item, date, price etc. Sort of the equvalent of a petty cash reciept. (those little white or yellow pads you find in all stationers)

Strangely enough, legaly you don't have to give reciepts, it's just become an ingrained custom (nor legally do you need a reciept to return something to a shop). So technically as long as you document the evidence and can show that it actually happened, your own word on a scrap of paper is proof enough

( Though that expense for £6,000) to keep you under the tax threashold might take a bit of proving :wink: )



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Postby agesofelegance » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:29 pm

I just do what andrew tells me to as he has the anal accoutning gene and I like collecting bits of paper :wink:

On the subject of what is tax deductible just to start us off

In the past I have claimed for ALL my historical gear whether tents, cauldrons, clothing etc as whether I am trading or not I am my companies walking advert so are therefore on display

Also clients often want clothing from films so I have to watch them so the cost of buying is TD as is the dvd/video and Tv to watch them on. The whole cost after all you don't buy half a one do you.

Trips are TD if you throw in something work related and all foods etc consumed on show and business trip time is TD


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Postby Shadowcat » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:08 pm

You specifically cannot claim 100% for clothing if it is worn as private clothing as well as for show. I asked this exact question of the helpful lady at the Inland Revenue office just up the road from me. I do a lot of talks and was told that unless I never, ever wear it for anything else I can't claim anything for it. (I don't have so many clothes that I can do that, so clothes are not on my list of expenses.) Therefore you might want to check with your local tax office to make sure that is the up-to-date legislation.

However, period clothing worn as a trader for example, to show off your skill, is probably a different matter, and could come under the heading of "samples"!

But, did you know that you can claim for hand cream? I work with a lot of silk, and at times my hands get rough and cause skegs or pulls in the fabric. I need handcream to prevent this, and according to a colleague's accountant this can be claimed for!

I suggest, that if you are starting out it would be a good idea to trot along to your local Tax Office, and ask how legislation affects your particular business. My local people have always been polite, helpful, and keen to make sure you claim for everything legal.

S.



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Postby Pete the Pong » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:13 pm

agesofelegance wrote: all foods etc consumed on show and business trip time is TD

Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but I think that technically you can only claim for breakfast and an evening meal.
Again I once explained to the tax office that on events we frequently eat from retailers who just take cash in hand, and they agreed that £2.50 for breakfast and £8.00 for an evening meal would be a reasonable amount to put down if you couldn't get a receipt. If you can get a receipt then you simply claim the whole amount paid. But again I reckon that it's best to be reasonable, so I always pay for (most) of the drinks seperately.


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Postby Pete the Pong » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:19 pm

Shadowcat wrote: You specifically cannot claim 100% for clothing if it is worn as private clothing as well as for show. I asked this exact question of the helpful lady at the Inland Revenue office just up the road from me. I do a lot of talks and was told that unless I never, ever wear it for anything else I can't claim anything for it.
However, period clothing worn as a trader for example, to show off your skill, is probably a different matter, and could come under the heading of "samples"!

....errrr, I don't nomally go shopping in kit. Not unless I've popped out of an event for some reason. ALL period clothing comes under the category of being the "working clothes" essential to our trade.
100% deductible.


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So much so that I insist on taking at least three or more pints of the Sacred Malted Medicine each and every night.

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Postby Shadowcat » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:57 pm

As I have said elsewhere, I am not a trader. Therefore period clothes are not essential to my trade. I "work" in modern clothes, when I give demonstrations in halls, for groups, talk in schools, museums and so on. I don't always wear costume - it isn't always either wanted or appropriate. Like I said, not being an historical trader, some of what I do is not what you all do, and I am simply stating facts as I have been told, or found out.

If I wear a houpplelande to work in, I claim for that, but it is very, very rare. I simply try to look smart, and recognizable, by wearing something in an unusual fabric or wearing an unusual piece of jewellery, but under no circumstances could it be called "kit", and if necessary, I could go to the supermarket in the clothes of my trade. Therefore my clothing is not 100% deductible - different things for different occasions.

I am simply stating things that I have ben told in reference to my historically related job, in the hope that it might help someone else in a similar position.



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Postby sally » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:27 pm

Shadowcat and Pete, these slightly different perspectives are fantastically enlightening. I think I fall somewhere in between the two of you (though in a smaller way of course) as I also have a mostly fulltime job, but many of my re-enactment items I'm rapidly realising could have been tax deductable as with one or two very tiny exceptions I'm always paid for being in kit and it always goes on the tax return. Therefore a lot of teh items I buy to allow me to be paid for being in kit should probably have been accounted for.

Roll on next tax year, I'm going to be so much better at all this 8)
Thinking that maybe Gareth and I should be in partnership too
Last edited by sally on Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Postby Neibelungen » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:45 pm

Interestingly... I claim 25% of my cats fees (food vet etc) as they works as pest control in my workshop.

Made a convincing argument that modern chemical controls were damaging to metal threads for moths. They didn't seem to mind as they often had the same situation of farms.

One of the more difficult ones, especially with metalwork is when a item of tooling falls between a consumable or an asset. I think they tend to draw the line around about a 1 year life span and under about £200 value, though it's not exactly clearly defined if I remember.

To be honest, I put everything almost everything down as a material cost, though correctly a lot of it shouldn't be.

A usefull tip in regards clothing is to buy them specifically for work and tax them as a uniform or overalls. (ps. pay for them with a business account just to make sure)



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Postby agesofelegance » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:00 pm

sally you can offset pretrading expenses I think it's for purchases 6 months prior to starting in trade if that si still posssible for you.

Shadowcat I also rarely period trade but I do event (althoguh not recently) and as I am recognised as a clothing maker then the clothes I am wearing are an advertisement, although I wouldn't necessarily claim for the suit I wore for a business seminar today although technically that is advertising as well

Dawn


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Postby sally » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:01 pm

Can someone break down the asset v consumable thing for me? I bought a laptop specifically for business use this year, cost about £600, expect to get maybe 3 yrs hard work out of it before it expires squeaking and spluttering. Do I have to do something esoteric with the paperwork as an asset, or do I just stick it in the money out column



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Postby Drachelis » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:19 pm

[i] Interestingly... I claim 25% of my cats fees (food vet etc) as they works as pest control in my workshop

Pest control in cutting room and fabric store for me - but Cobweb makes sure that they are seen to be working - he tends to brng in live mice and leaves Miko to catch it!!!!!! :D

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Postby Shadowcat » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:30 pm

Dawn

Perhaps I can explain it better this way, as I don't seem able to get this over to people. Any historical clothes I make and wear for myself are tax deductible. I agree there.

However, and I have had this explained very carefully by my local tax office, my civilian clothes are not tax deductable. My business clothes are not tax deductable, no matter how fancy.

Maybe other people's local tax offiicials are more lenient. I feel safer filling in my tax forms the way I always have, and the way I have been told.


S.



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Postby Kaos Magus » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:04 am

Neibelungen wrote:Interestingly... I claim 25% of my cats fees (food vet etc) as they works as pest control in my workshop.

A friend of mine tells the following story:
Tax Man "I see you are claiming the entire costs of not only your guard dog, but also your domestic cats. Why?"
My friend "Rodent control"
Tax Man "But you don't have a rodent problem"
My friend "Precisely"


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Neibelungen
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Postby Neibelungen » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:31 am

Yep, it's what you can get away with, and each local tax office seems to apply the criteria differently.

I know with workwear (especially metalwork) you can claim clothing expenses because of the risk and damage factors (burns, acid splashes, crushed feet etc.) historical clothing worn as a display can be either advertising or sample work so gets included.
Day wear, such as suits, falls into that category like traveling to work.... it's a neccessary part of working so doesn't get included as you have to do it regardless. It's only if you can seperate something as being integral involved with being a work expense that you can claim all or a proportion.

Or the other side.... you try to get away with as much as you can till you get checked out and asked to cough up the etra money for fibbing :wink:

I think David can probably explain assets more effectively or correct me if I'm wrong.
Generally it an item of a value that has a business lifespan of more than a year and often a residual value at the end of that set lifespan. Like a car, even an old one has a resale value.

Usually you evaluate it in a couple of ways;
A complicated % deduction of it's value for every year of it's life... 10% of its residual value every year.....
1st year : 10% of £1000 is £100 for the first year So £100 against tax. £900 asset value
2nd Year ; 10% of £900 is £90 for the second year. So £90 against tax , £810 asset value left.
Continues for the 10 years so your left with a residual value which is never zero and reflects it's worth if you sell it.

This approach is fine for buger bussiness, but is complicated for a small business as it needs keeping a whole set of records for every asset.

Simpler aproach is straight % totalling it's entire life. So 10% every year , exactly the same figure with no asset value left. Sale at the end of life is a simple sale.

So a £1000 with 4 year life span is £250 a year

It works when you have a double entry bookeeping system which gives you trial balances etc, but doesn't help a small business that's just paid out £1000 and can only deduct £250. Makes your profit/loss look different from what your bank balance says.

Personally I've always tried to consider it a material/tool expense and loose the whole cost in a single year, (2 if i can't justify it entirely to myself or too large). Taxman /Accountant might quibble on an inspection, but that's rare and it's not like your cheating them of thousands.

So my suggestion with a lap-top is to devide it's value between a work/home percentage and deduct that as one value

I'd welcome David's suggestion on this as he might know exactly what the specifics are and what's tollerable or easiest.



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Postby Kaos Magus » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:29 am

Neibelungen wrote:This approach is fine for buger bussiness

Assuming the new profanity filter is now working, all I can say is that I've had the same Bognor attitude for some time now.
Computers are a strange asset as they are out of date (and therefore practically worthless) a couple of months after you've bought them.
The way that I work it is is that on average I spend about £1000 per year on "capital equipment", and that I have a "pool" of about £4000's worth of such equipment (including the van) depreciating at 25% per annum.
So, spend 1K, lose 1K. Tax implication? Zero!


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Postby david smith » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:27 am

Capital Expenditure, like most areas of accountancy and tax is rather a grey area, and open to as many interpretations as there are tax inspectors and accountants.

BASICALLY
You have to keep track individually of Buildings and Property, Vehicles, and lump everything else into Equipment.

It's going to be fairly rare for a historic trader to want to have Property or Buildings as an asset of the business, if you work from home then claim a proportion of the costs of things like contents insurance, electric, phone on a basis relating to space used specifically for the business. I use one bedroom as an office, so as kitchens and bathrooms don't count for this calculation, the house has one reception, and 4 bedrooms, therefore my office is one fifth, and so I claim 20% of household bills. This does have longer term implications on making a profit of the sale of the House and 20% of that being liable to Capital Gains Tax, but that's a way off yet and may well get lost in the dust, fingers crossed. If you do have a property or land owned by your business, then all maintenance and repairs are deductible. However there is no Capital Allowances per se as the Revenue assume property will increase in value, as opposed to things like cars which depreciate (ie lose value).

Vehicles attract two sorts of tax implications - running costs and depreciation. Depreciation (ie loss of value) is not recgonised bythe Tax Man, instead he lets you claim Capital Allowances on a reducing balance basis - ie you never really get the full benefit, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Vehicles CA's are 25% pa max, so you buy a van for £10,000, and in year one you claim CA's of 25% being £2,500. The Van thenhas a Tax Written Down Value (in your records, easy on Excel) of £7,500 and so in year 2 25% of that is £1,875 to put in the box on the Tax Return and a TWDV to carry forward of £5,625 and so on.

All other Equipment: lump it in together, and write it down as fast as you like or can argue a case for. Try and regard most things as "Tools" and claim the whole cost in year of purchase.
So you have an Equipment Record which runs
Purchase in Year One
Less 50% CA's as the damn stuff is obsolete so fast (PC's and Printers, Camera, Office Furniture in my case)
Balance at End of Year One
Plus Purchases in Year Two
Less Any Disposals (at WDV) - proceeds add to Income
Balance therefore is X
CA's in Year 2 at 50%
Tax WDV carrried forward into year 3

And so on. Not too tricky if you use Excel, or even a paper based system. just logical steps - and of course claim as high a % as you can, and try to justify most purchases as "tools" or similar.

On another point, you can ( I think, unless they have changed the rules, which they do every blessed year which is why I hate giving tax advice, best to check the help pages in Tax Calc :-) ) when you start a business bring in any relevant expenditure you have incurred previously in getting ready to start that business, I don't think there's a time limit but you'll need the relevant receipts to support the spending - and when you carefully) make a loss in the first few years of your business you can claim back that loss against tax you have paid in the previous 6(?) years on other sources of income - such as a job and PAYE.

A story to lighten things up. Three accountants are neck and neck for a job as Financial Controller for a large company, the directors can't decide. So they give each of them a copy of the Trial Balance from the previous day's computer system and tell them that whoever works out the "bottom line" ie Profit or Loss first canhave the job.

Two of them get out a calculator and start making notes.

The third one asks the question.

"What do you want it to be?"

Best wishes
David

NB Where do I send the Invoice? :lol: :lol:
Last edited by david smith on Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Postby Pete the Pong » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am

Thanks David.
I've taken the liberty of quoting this in the T&V sticky at the top!
You can send the invoice to my ancestor:
Sir Robert DeWigley
Secretary, HM Black Prince
c/o Canterbury Cathedral
Knet


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Postby Kate Tiler » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:32 pm

Aargh!!! - My eyes! My eyes! Can't cope with all the technical stuff today but thanks anyway!

My only tip is to be careful who you ask to help you with your books etc - I am dreadful at all of the stuff you guys advise & am well known for my 6am the morning after the deadline having started at 3pm the previous afternoon tax returns...

But I know this is a flaw and last year I was thrilled to meet another artist who recommended someone who could sort out all the paperwork & fill in the tax return for me, for a very small fee. I duly handed over all the fistfulls of reciepts, my cheque books, and my copies of invoices etc, & made several visits to bring more stuff like morgage details, electric bills etc.

She was registered as someone who does books etc for the tax returns & she drew up a 'dummy' tax return for me to go home & enter in online, with her registered as the tax advisor.

Trouble was when I got back & looked through the files she'd returned, (very close to the tax deadline) there was no working out. At All.

So although I entered all the figures as she had calculated them, I had no way of checking her working out, no way to figure out whether she had started doing any of this whole 'capital' stuff for big items, not even a sheet of paper showing each reciept added up. Too late then to do anything about it, so I just had to enter in what she had put & ended up handing over the entire contents of my bank acccount to pay the previous year's tax bill & half in advance.

Big lesson for me, & this year I spent a week working on sorting out my paperwork & even managed to get the tax return in at 2am! I carried on the sorting out into this current year and so far I'm managing to empty out my reciepts into the monthly files and sort through them.

I still hate it all with a passion, but I found out I hate being out of control of it worse.


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Postby david smith » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:12 pm

Ah, but you see Kate, if she'd given you copies of her workings etc you'd have been able to follow what she had done and realised just how very little that was for the bill.

You're far better off doing it yourself. If it takes say 2 days (though only if you are really really hopeless) then compare how much you would get after all expenses etc for two days working in a school to how much the accountant's fees would be. And if you keep on top of it it won't take you very long, and you'll get better and better at it :lol:

If you are paying much tax, there's something wrong with your accounts!

Best wishes
David


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agesofelegance
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Postby agesofelegance » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:49 pm

I had an accountant when I first started as I was also working properly as well but ended up paying them more than I would have done tax so quickly learned to do it myself.
Althoguh I've never been good at being organised monthly despite Andrew's repeated telling off's :oops: but that's usually because as soon as Iv'e got the hang of one software system he decides another would be better.
I kind of like spending the christmas hols going through piles of paper and reminiscing about the previous year. it makes it less boring that way :)


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Shadowcat
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Cautionary Tale.

Postby Shadowcat » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:27 pm

I've never trusted accountants since I used one to submit my accounts when I was working in the real world. The Inland Revenue asked for money for when I was working on a certain date, as my accountant had said I was working then. I was, in labour, giving birth to my son. It took me ages to make the Revenue understand, and I did my own accounts ever after.

The same accountant failed to submit accounts for my husband, who was very nearly sent to prison for not paying up. I went through the accounts, went to court with him, and he paid the bill off in instalments. Same accountant had the nerve to bill my husband about 3 years later for work done. I asked him to submit accounts explaining clearly what, precisely, he had done. Never heard from him again.

Until..............we learned he had gone to prison for false accounting and fraud.

S.



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Postby Skevmeister » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:55 pm

I am currently Alpha Testing a really simple to use MS Accounting system that does all teh good stuff plus payroll and integrates into Outlook Contacts Manager.

And if it comes out at the same price as the US version should be about £150 quid rather than the silly prices that TAS and SAGE ask for.

And is really simple to use. So simple even I can understand what it's talking about.

Skev


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Postby david smith » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:29 pm

Sadly, amongst accountants as with all other groups of folk, there's the standard distribution curve.

Imagine a cross section through an old fashioned bell - from left to right starts going up gently then steeply peaks and does reverse back to level again - by area 70% is in the middle, and about 15% at each extreme, with the extreme extremes (as it were) only having a very small % indeed.

So you have a few really bad apples, rather more duffers, the great mass of average, some good, and a few really good. Works for both ability and moral fibre :lol:

And of course, there's those that start off all bright eyed and bushy tailed, only to become completely disillusioned and cynical about it all.

Best wishes
David


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Postby Neibelungen » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:52 pm

Sounds exactly like the mix of re-enactment traders, except there's a few more on each end of the curve

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