You Want How Much ? !!!

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Shadowcat
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Postby Shadowcat » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:48 pm

agesofelegance wrote:some of us who don't trade regularly are not members of the NMTF.

Dawn


Me too. (Or do I mean me neither?) I am not a member of the NMTF.

s.



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Neibelungen
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Postby Neibelungen » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:12 pm

Personally I would prefer it to be an open public forum, where anybody can contribute, traders and public alike. I suspect much of the 'customer' side would be as interested in learning our secrets as much as we would.

If you try to make it into a 'closed' forum, who determins who's allowed, or what constitutes a trader. Then you might as well make it public.

As to the aspect of discussing individual cases, while it might be usefull in many ways, it's not neccessary to actually identify specifics. If you want to share individual details, that's a matter between individuals privately. One can deal in generalities as examplers without needing to name anybody.

Again, while using a NMTF number might be usefull, it means you would have to be a member of that first, and excludes those who aren't.



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Drachelis
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Postby Drachelis » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:36 pm

I think it should be an open forum - those viewing from the customer side here have made a very valid contribution.

I definitely do not think it should be a place where folks can either slag off or give lists of personal "bees knees" folk - that is best done elsewhere. we can generally talk about non payment as we have done on this forum - and various other problems -

At the risk of being jumped on from a great height - I think it would need to be consistenly moderated so that any of this type of thing is politely nipped in the bud very quickly.

I have really enjoyed the debates on this forum over the last few weeks - it has been civilised and informative ( and not without humour) I would like to see a traders forum doing the same.




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Drachelis
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Postby Drachelis » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:33 am

Now Cal has kindly given us a traders forum - might it be an idea to move these general threads over there?


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PaulMurphy
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Postby PaulMurphy » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:40 am

Done.


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Postby agesofelegance » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:47 am

very clever :)



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Postby frances » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:10 pm

Been a bit busy for the last few days (outside re-enactment), so where do I start? I began because I needed costumes for myself to wear for historic dancing and in those days noone I danced with knew how to do it properly - I thought "I can make things that look better than that"!!

I have a wider selection of historic haberdashery bits and bobs than any shop in the UK or other seller in my area. But, I am undercut by someone who only offers one of my lines at half the price - she does not go to all the places to purchase as I do, but the customers like her prices. I have the general public standing next to me saying "I can buy that cheaper in ... town" but then they have to spend the time and money travelling to that place and yet here they are with the goods available there and then. Last weekend someone said she had a friend who lived overseas who wanted to start up something like my stall and where was the warehouse!!

We will always have to put up with this type of comment. Many people think that becasue we sell things from a tent in the countryside our goods should be dirt cheap and that we are just sellers. Few understand that we are all specialist historic researchers and experts who also craft and sell. This is the way round it should be.



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Postby Lord High Everything Esle » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:16 pm

Drachelis wrote:that url ws very helpful - thanks - I presume that if labels can be on packaging and not permanently a clearly written price label attached to the garment stating these and also the " hand made", "Hand Finished" or whatever and " Made in" information


At the Historic Traders division of the National Market Traders association agm at Tewkesbury last, they had a Trading standards less giiving a talk - one of the questions asked on labelling was what to do if you were not sure of the composition of the fabric used - she told us that it was acceptable in these cases to put " mixed fibres " for this and for when the beakdown of percentage wasn't known.

As far as wash insructions - I either label dry clean only or handwash with care if appropriate.

Cheryl
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Hehe
I remember looking at a pair of walking socks to see what the composition was. You know 60% wool 40% poly... No, "100% mixed fibres"


Will/Dave, the Jolly Box Man and Barber Surgeon

"Physicians of all men are most happy; what good success soever they have, the world proclaimeth, and what faults they commit the earth coverest." Frances Quarles (1592-1644) Nicocles

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Postby david kevin smith » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:26 pm

What a brilliant discussion - although I have to disagree with Lucy that just because it's at a re-enactor's market it has to be "cheap".

For example, Jeffrey Hedgecock's sprung steel bespoke plate armour is far from cheap, nor is that by Martin from A Plaisance. I'm sure there are similar examples at The OtheR Market, and at Cressing Templars Fair, and in Leeds.

Surely it is a matter of horses for courses? We can't compete on hourly wages here versus India or China, so as mentioned above the cheap end of the market is going to be pretty much all imports, and providied they offer the right level of quality (and authenticity) to price then I don't see that one has anything to complain about. Some suppliers in this field, such as Steve at GDFB have gone to great lengths to try and get it right, using experienced re-enactors such as Mike Trevor to help with design, and Martin from A Plaisance to go out with him to India to help train the workers there to improve quality.

I don't want to play God in deciding who trades or what they trade in, I much prefer to let "the market place" decide whether a trader is offering the right goods at the right price. However if it was proven to my complete satisfaction that trader X had deliberately misled a customer over something to that customers detriment, that is a very different matter.

Craftsmen and Women and even just those who buy and sell have the right to make sufficient profits to pay themselves a decent hourly rate. What that rate might be will vary depending on other circumstances, such as whether this is hobby, part time, full time etc.

I also agree that a broad base of customers rather than just re-enactors, or just museums, or just theatres is probably a very good and sensible thing. And most certainly get a website, if I can manage it you could probably train a retarded monkey to do it! :lol:

I don't think a Guild will fly - and even if it did it would come off the rails PDQ - wonderful mixing of metaphors there - they don't have a happy history and are prone to lovely politics etc.

Reputation is key - personal recommendation the best advert.

(Oh, and I'm all for motherhood and apple pie too!)

Best wishes
David



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Postby Tuppence » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:34 pm

some of us who don't trade regularly are not members of the NMTF.

Dawn


quite a lot who do trade regularly aren't members.
personally (sorry if it sounds mercenary) I'm a member cos I needed the public liability insurance (everywhere I've traded in the past has included it, but was trading somewhere that didn't).
but I can't say the product and employers liability don't come in handy!!
the newletters it has to be said (although funny for the odd 'costumed' day that gets reported) are pretty much completely irrelevant (to me anyway).

At the risk of being jumped on from a great height - I think it would need to be consistenly moderated so that any of this type of thing is politely nipped in the bud very quickly.


JUMP tee hee :lol: :lol:

sorry
but I can bet I'll be around here fairly often, so that's no a huge problem. so if anybody spots a problem of that sort first, feel free to pm me (or any of the others for that matter).

I don't think it's too much of a problem to discuss specific cases, as long as absolutely no identifiable info is used (if necessary including what the particular item(s) in question are / were).
For example, it'd be ok to say something like 'I've got a customer who's bounced three cheques in a row on me, what do I do?', but not to say, 'I've just made a blue silk doublet for joe smith and he's bounced three cheques on me, what do I do?'.*

where was the warehouse!!


should have said "my house"!!! :lol:

I remember looking at a pair of walking socks to see what the composition was. You know 60% wool 40% poly... No, "100% mixed fibres"


yeah, which is really helpful if you're like half of my customers and allergic to stuff.

re-enacting......mutter mutter......allergic to wool......mutter mutter......

:roll:

Debbie

*NB completely hypothetical example with no basis in fact whatsoever. :D


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david smith
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Postby david smith » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:42 pm

Help Help Help!!!

My family is being besmirched! My cousin Joe has been libelled!!!

Oh well, another case of choosing the wrong parents :lol: :lol:

Best wishes
David Smith (no relation)


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Drachelis
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Postby Drachelis » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:00 pm

JUMP tee hee Laughing Laughing



:shock: :o

I know I have been described a pneumatic an :o bouncy but...................... :)

Seriously - thanks for the guidance -it is exactly what I meant - anonymous discussion in an open forum.

Cheryl
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DomT
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Postby DomT » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:02 pm

Oh dont worry the mods keep their beedy eye on most things. Event Organisers and traders are particularly in the spotlight however.

You're reputations are everything to you whereas Joe Slow re-enactor can get away with more* and is less touchy as a result. As such we'll keep a eye on things and keep it as a level playing field for all. In point of fact I think this is one of the most worthwhile discussions I've seen in a very long time.

Dom


*Unless you're name is Martin Cowley. In which case it doesnt matter as you're just as capable of making a uproar as a re-enactor years before you become a trader and do likewise.


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Postby david smith » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:53 pm

I was not being entirely serious, as I supect DomT recognised :lol: :lol:

As I said somewhere recently, I dont take offence, I take revenge.

But it has been a very long time on this forum since I really took any offence.

Despite Debs trying to curb my pop habit!

Best wishes
David


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Postby DomT » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:42 pm

:D


"Sir, I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. "



"To hear one voice clearly, we must have freedom to hear them all."



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Postby Tuppence » Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:00 am

Despite Debs trying to curb my pop habit!


only cos it's so last season, dahling!!
but feel free to go back to talking to yourself again :twisted:


I much prefer to let "the market place" decide whether a trader is offering the right goods at the right price.



that's easy - if you're not nobody buys from you, you make no money, and you quit (or adjust pretty quickly)

However if it was proven to my complete satisfaction that trader X had deliberately misled a customer over something to that customers detriment, that is a very different matter.


actually happens more than I'm sure anyone would like, but in these days of libel and all that, you have to be carefult what you say about it and to whom. as I said somewhere above, those who do that don't usually stick around for long, but we do all get tarred with the same 'bah - traders - bah' brush.

debbie


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Miss Piggy

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david smith
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Postby david smith » Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:27 pm

Tuppence wrote:
only cos it's so last season, dahling!!
but feel free to go back to talking to yourself again :twisted:

debbie


Well, you certainly seem to be listening to every word!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best wishes
David


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Postby Tuppence » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:56 pm

thank you so much for the kind compliment, david, so nice to know I'm doing my job as a moderator properly :D :D :D


"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."

Miss Piggy

RIP Edward the avatar cat.


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