Shame about the shoes

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Charles Drew
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Shame about the shoes

Postby Charles Drew » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:47 pm

This weekend has seen a return of the vikings to York. I saw lots of people doing thier thing and really like the people making beads with the bow lathe. Some displys better than others but the same could be said for any period, and some stuff was a bit same old same old but again at that type of event I can see it being difficult to do any large scale displays. But was actually appalled at some peoples foot ware! I want to say right off that most of the reenactors were in what appeared to be decent period shoes but there was a number of people wearing ugg boots - surely these are more expensive than a cheap pair of reenactment shoes. But also notice people in walking boots, doc martins and trainers. What are these people thinking? You get the rest of your kit looking ok and even spend money on mail but cant be bothered to get a pair of shoes! I feel that this lets all the other people there down and is a slap in the face to reenactors who try to get things as correct as they can.



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Simon Atford
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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby Simon Atford » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:22 pm

This is one of my pet hates. I don't even like putting on modern shoes for health and safety reasons although I don't others doing it if during training or when MOPs can't see (and I will reluctantly if clients insist) For living history displays though it just looks crap and I especially can't understand anyone buying something modern specifically to wear with period kit. Period shoes are a lot easier to get hold of in these days of online shopping. At one time going bespoke and waiting to have your shoes made was the only option for some periods but this is no longer the case.



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Neil of Ormsheim
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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby Neil of Ormsheim » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:48 am

Whilst I cannot speak for the other societies involved, all members of The Vikings were in authentic footwear at all times when on public display. I am fairly confident that the other societies involved would have operated in similar vein.
However........ There are huge numbers of Members of the Public who dress up in 'part costume' to feel more involved. Over the years, many of these 'part costumes' are getting more and more difficult to tell apart from the re-enactors. Until you look at the feet. Few, if any, of these people are going to the expense (and discomfort) of using authentic footwear on the modern surfaces of York city centre.
Unfortunately, there is nothing that the re-enactors can do to prevent people seeing these MoPs and assuming that they are members of our societies.


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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby Annie the Arrow » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:50 pm

I think Neil is bang on there, we were trading in The Merchant Adventures Hall and there were loads of MOPS dressed up in fake fur blankets


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Simon Atford
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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby Simon Atford » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:46 pm

Neil of Ormsheim wrote:Whilst I cannot speak for the other societies involved, all members of The Vikings were in authentic footwear at all times when on public display. I am fairly confident that the other societies involved would have operated in similar vein.
However........ There are huge numbers of Members of the Public who dress up in 'part costume' to feel more involved. Over the years, many of these 'part costumes' are getting more and more difficult to tell apart from the re-enactors. Until you look at the feet. Few, if any, of these people are going to the expense (and discomfort) of using authentic footwear on the modern surfaces of York city centre.
Unfortunately, there is nothing that the re-enactors can do to prevent people seeing these MoPs and assuming that they are members of our societies.


Don't some clients such as EH discourage the MOPs from turning up in 'costume'? Generally speaking the only costumed MOPs I see are children (which is never an issue as they are clearly not meant to be authentic are accompanied by non costumed parents) but we did have an issue with some people who turned in 'medieval' to one of our Farleigh Hungerford Castle events years ago but after one of them tried to show us "how to archery properly" with his Victorian bow they were asked to leave.



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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby Medicus Matt » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:25 pm

Simon Atford wrote:
Don't some clients such as EH discourage the MOPs from turning up in 'costume'? Generally speaking the only costumed MOPs I see are children (which is never an issue as they are clearly not meant to be authentic are accompanied by non costumed parents) but we did have an issue with some people who turned in 'medieval' to one of our Farleigh Hungerford Castle events years ago but after one of them tried to show us "how to archery properly" with his Victorian bow they were asked to leave.


The difference being that York is a city and, with the exception of the battlefield itself, there is nothing to stop anybody who wishes to put on some kit (good or bad) and wearing it during the festival, or even tagging on to the back of the parade through the city.


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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby Simon Atford » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:35 pm

Medicus Matt wrote:
Simon Atford wrote:
Don't some clients such as EH discourage the MOPs from turning up in 'costume'? Generally speaking the only costumed MOPs I see are children (which is never an issue as they are clearly not meant to be authentic are accompanied by non costumed parents) but we did have an issue with some people who turned in 'medieval' costume to one of our Farleigh Hungerford Castle events years ago but after one of them tried to show us "how to do archery properly" with his Victorian bow they were asked to leave.


The difference being that York is a city and, with the exception of the battlefield itself, there is nothing to stop anybody who wishes to put on some kit (good or bad) and wearing it during the festival, or even tagging on to the back of the parade through the city.


I suppose you could argue it is good that the people of the city want to get involved. If it is just re-enactors who notice it probably doesn't matter. The only real issue there might be is it that could reflect badly on those societies who perform.



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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby 40/- freeholder » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:56 pm

The incentive to go to Jorvik Viking Festival in kit is the discount admittance to the markets. In that respect, the organisers are gently encouraging such participation.



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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby Simon Atford » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:39 pm

40/- freeholder wrote:The incentive to go to Jorvik Viking Festival in kit is the discount admittance to the markets. In that respect, the organisers are gently encouraging such participation.


Perhaps people should only get the discount if they wear authentic shoes?



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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby lucy the tudor » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:46 pm

Maybe it's a little naive of me, but if the people who are not actually part of a display, are enthusiastic enough to have a crack at making costume for a city event like this, may they not, potentially become reenactors in the future, if they are made to feel welcome, rather than criticized for their footwear?
They are also part of the overall spectacle, which is what a lot of the normal ( for want of a better word) visitors enjoy so much. We are interested in authenticity and learning opportunities, and there has to be a good amount of that to make it fun for us, but a lot of people think that is secondary to a good day out. They are the main financial supporters of the event.
I have seen some of the lovely photos showing a good number of our current highest standard reenactors, in their early attempts at kit, and myself have changed a lot of what I wear compared to when I first played the game. We all start somewhere, and if we're lucky, enjoy the friendship and advice of other people who have already learned by hard work and experience.
If York encourages the MOPs to dress up, with a discount, the event organizers are happy that they are not "perfect", but are part of the general feel. If we expect them to refuse the discount based on footwear, will that then progress to species or appropriateness of fur, thread count, dye stuffs, and hair cut and colour, if we start excluding where does it stop?
At Kentwell they ask the school groups to make a basic effort to dress the children, and teachers in something near enough to vaguely Tudoresque so that when the whole scene is viewed by the other school parties, from a distance, it looks like a "proper" Tudor set up. Some kit is appalling, but they have tried, and they enjoy trying, some is so good, we have to look at the shoes to check that we shouldn't be responding to them as participants. Either way adds to the fun for all of us.


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Simon Atford
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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby Simon Atford » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:47 pm

lucy the tudor wrote:Maybe it's a little naive of me, but if the people who are not actually part of a display, are enthusiastic enough to have a crack at making costume for a city event like this, may they not, potentially become reenactors in the future, if they are made to feel welcome, rather than criticized for their footwear?
They are also part of the overall spectacle, which is what a lot of the normal ( for want of a better word) visitors enjoy so much. We are interested in authenticity and learning opportunities, and there has to be a good amount of that to make it fun for us, but a lot of people think that is secondary to a good day out. They are the main financial supporters of the event.
I have seen some of the lovely photos showing a good number of our current highest standard reenactors, in their early attempts at kit, and myself have changed a lot of what I wear compared to when I first played the game. We all start somewhere, and if we're lucky, enjoy the friendship and advice of other people who have already learned by hard work and experience.
If York encourages the MOPs to dress up, with a discount, the event organizers are happy that they are not "perfect", but are part of the general feel. If we expect them to refuse the discount based on footwear, will that then progress to species or appropriateness of fur, thread count, dye stuffs, and hair cut and colour, if we start excluding where does it stop?
At Kentwell they ask the school groups to make a basic effort to dress the children, and teachers in something near enough to vaguely Tudoresque so that when the whole scene is viewed by the other school parties, from a distance, it looks like a "proper" Tudor set up. Some kit is appalling, but they have tried, and they enjoy trying, some is so good, we have to look at the shoes to check that we shouldn't be responding to them as participants. Either way adds to the fun for all of us.


I am not a participant in the event in thread and can only goo by what is said here. The issue in this case to have been seems to have been that some people didn't realize they were MOPs. If the public want to play dress up I personally have no problem with that if the event organizers are fine with it or encourage it (as seems to be the case with this event).



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Re: Shame about the shoes

Postby 40/- freeholder » Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:25 pm

I hope to go in kit next year, with a friend & her 8 year old son who were inspired by this year's event. I will be wearing modern shoes as the last time I wore period shoes in York I lost my footing and went down hard on the modern smooth surface. I'm at the stage where I can't risk broken neck of femur for the sake of joining in the fun. If I was to go as a paid attraction, that would be a different matter.




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