sir thomas more's household

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sir thomas more's household

Postby matlot » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:48 pm

does any ony have any refrences to holbein' painting of sir thomas more's household in perticular the person marked dr john clements supposedly richard duke of york one of the princes in the tower

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Annie the Pedlar
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Postby Annie the Pedlar » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:51 am

From a National Gallery leaflet.
Margaret Gigs married John Clements, More's friend and one time secretary. Like her husband she was an eminent Greek scholar and shared his knowledge in medicine.

Margaret Gigs was Thomas More's adopted daughter.

In Holbein's sketch, that Rowland Locky's painting was probably based on, Margaret is 22. The date of 1530 on the sketch is incorrect. It must have been done in 1528.

Holbein did a painting based on the sketch (which is full of objects reflecting learning, music, medicine, Catholic devotion and don't forget Dame Alice's (naughty?) pet monkey). This painting no longer exists. It was probably burnt in 1752.
There is a copy at Nostell Priory (probably by Roland Lockey) which is similar but with subtle changes. Margaret (Roper?) and Elizabeth have changed places (and look like they are no longer speaking to each other) and Catholic references are gone and the room has been tidied up. The date on this one must be wrong. It says 1530 but Rowland was an apprentice in 1581.
Another copy is a miniature. (Rowland was apprenticed to Nicholas Hilliard).
The third is in the National Portrait Gallery.
The theory is the Cavendish family asked Rowland Locky to paint 3 copies of Holbein's painting.

You might find more in.....
Tudor and Jacobean Portraits in the NPG by R. Strong.
The Likeness of Thomas More by S. Morisin and N. Barker
The Family of St. Thomas More in Essex by D. Shanahan in Essex RecusantI and II
Thomas More wrote tons of letters to all his children and vica versa. Can they be tracked down? And do you want to trawl through them?
Erasmus was a close friend, always popping in for a drink of ale and a chat. Could a biography of him give you a lead?

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