What if Richard III had won at Bosworth?

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Simon Atford
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What if Richard III had won at Bosworth?

Postby Simon Atford » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:43 pm

This occurred to me recently. Can't think why :wink:

Most obvious thing is that no Henry VII equals no Henry VIII and no break with Rome. Very hard to say though how the Plantagenets would have fared in the 16th and 17th Centuries though. Is it possible that one of them could have got into Absolutism and the whole Divine Right of Kings thing and thus kick off some sort of English Civil War?

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Jack Campin
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Re: What if Richard III had won at Bosworth?

Postby Jack Campin » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:13 am

Folklore says Henry VII was responsible for England becoming a naval power.

Without the navy, England couldn't have challenged Spain and Portugal in the Americas or colonized India.

So the whole of the Americas would be Hispanic except for a few Francophone enclaves; Europe would have had centuries of struggle for dominance between France and Spain, and further east and south the struggle for Africa would have been between a unified India and the Ottoman Empire.



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Simon Atford
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Re: What if Richard III had won at Bosworth?

Postby Simon Atford » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:37 pm

It's possible of course that victorious Richard would have renewed the war with France as his brother Edward tried to do in the 1470s. How successful he would have been is another matter of course. A Ricardian Field of the Cloth Gold anyone?

Further down the line we still might have seen a certain playwright emerging from the Midlands in very different political circumstances. His smash hit being The Triumph of King Richard III and Death of the Traitor Henry Tudor.
Last edited by Simon Atford on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: What if Richard III had won at Bosworth?

Postby czartank » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:45 pm

Andre Norton wrote a Novel in which Richard wins Bosworth, takes on Columbus and the English reach the Americas first; they go North rather than South and by the mid 20th Century are in involved in a war with the aztecs


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Re: What if Richard III had won at Bosworth?

Postby randallmoffett » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:02 am

Henry VII is the one who starts large scale naval yards and increases the number of ships but I am not sure I'd go as far as to say created. Edward IV owned ships as did Edward I and Edward III. I think it safe to say he had a hand in it but I am not sure that another would not have done the same thing in his place. Much of Europe was gearing up for increased naval power by the end of the 15th start of 16th.

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Re: What if Richard III had won at Bosworth?

Postby Colin Middleton » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:12 pm

Would it have been that different? IIRC, Edward IV was started building the navy, so Henry VII just developed it further (as with so many 'Tudor inventions' that actually appeared in the MA). Henry VIII was Edward IV's grandson and Richard III was (supposedly) lookign to marry Elizabeth of York, which could easily have resulted in a child very much like Henry VIII.

You could easily have would up with the same story, just different names...


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Re: What if Richard III had won at Bosworth?

Postby randallmoffett » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:19 pm

I don't know.... it took a very special set of genes and environment to make Henry VIII........

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Re: What if Richard III had won at Bosworth?

Postby Simon Atford » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:29 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:
You could easily have would up with the same story, just different names...


randallmoffett wrote:I don't know.... it took a very special set of genes and environment to make Henry VIII........

RPM


I don't see why Richard III couldn't have produced a son who was a bit shouty and fond of his food. He might even have been called Richard IV:

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