obscure saints

Historic questions, thoughts and other interesting stuff

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ViscontesseD'Asbeau
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Postby ViscontesseD'Asbeau » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:32 am

Henrietta Maria had some sort of mechanical all-singing all-dancing shrine, specially built for her in London (apparently even the architect thought it was tacky). It was seen as a bit of a provocative act, at the time. Would love to have seen it



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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:42 am

Karen I think you are talking about St. Piran the patron saint of Cornwall. he had a habit of casting his alterpeice into the sea and then following it tosee where it landed. St Ives is named after Sy Hya (or Si Ia) a Irsh pricess converted by St Patricak. She was late getting to the set off point for a group of missionaries led by St Guieaner who were martyred by a Cornish warlord called Twydor. She persuaded him to make amends by giving her land to build a convent. The dog saint is a myth, a folk story, but animals have been sentenced to death at the stake for witchcraft. St. Isidore performed a miracle that saved sevile from starvation when he preached to a plague of mice that were eating all the grain, they buggered off when told of the horrors that would face them as gluttons in Hell. Purgatory is regarded by catholics as a place of healing and love where the lessons that are meant to have been learned and the sins commited in error or by direct fault are judged and removed as part of the process of healing. Because of this many Catholics (and Eastern Orthodox) Christians, myself incuded believe that everyone has a fair chance of getting to Heaven, unless they really make an effort not to. This means I look forward to meeting Ghandi, Muhhammed PBUH and numerous others from different faiths and Creeds in Heaven. And being made Pope on account of a dove landing on your shoulder sounds as bizarre to me as tieing your hands together, leaping over a broomstick and saying you're married. But hey, I'll try not to take the p*ss out of your beliefs Jim if you try to make an effort not to do the same to mine.


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Postby Borsch Monster » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:03 pm

St Werburgh was an Anglo saxon princess/nun who revived a goose. She is the patron saint of chester (and probably geese)



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Postby Laffin Jon Terris » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:18 am

Have just been looking for an old site i found ages ago regarding saints and their patronage:

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/indexsnt.htm

Have also found this one regarding saints and their histories:

http://www.catholic.org/saints

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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:40 pm

St. Alkmund of Derby. A Prince of the Northumbrian royal family who earnestly undertook the conversion of his people to the Christian faith. His rather puritanical ideas really got on their goat and they rebelled against him forcing him and his priests to flee to the Scotii. Then came the Danes and after a little while living under the rule of real pagans the Northumbrians asked him to come back. he did and because God was on his side an so on he managed to drive the vikings out. Then he went back to bothering them all with going to church and they remembered why they had didn't like him in the first place, so while on the crapper someone came up and shoved a spear through the dunny, and Alkmund at the same time. Thus he died a martyr in 819 ce. Fear of the danes forced his followers to take his remains southwards and they ended up at Derby, home of all things Northumbrian. St. Alkmund's speciality is curing impotence in men, you see when that spear went through him it ended up slicing off his old man, sadly this never became his emblem, the mental image being to much for the church to cope with I guess but it did mean that up to the Reformation men who had problems getting it up would take waxen images of their forsaken members to Derby in the hope that offering them upon the shrine of St. Alkmund would put some lead back into their old pencils. I kid you not on this.


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Postby RottenCad » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:25 pm

I'm sure that there will be at least one Catholic out there whose recollection of the Catechism is worthier and more accurate than mine.

My understanding of Sainthood is not that someone gets "promoted" to it as one might from MBE to OBE to CBE, but that a saint is someone we know to be in Heaven. An immutable soul being something of a requisite to continued existence in that particular afterlife, I would imagine having a canonised canine to be incompatible with doctrine.

Or in this case, I suppose, "Dog-ma" ...

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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:04 pm

One: Belong to either the Catholic, Orthodox or Eithopian Churches as none of the others make saints.
Two: Die, preferably as a martyr for the Faith as this allows you to bypass Purgertory and get stright to heaven.
Three: Have someone rooting for your cause, you have to have someone say this person deserves to be honoured as a saint (this bread is good enough for Moses).
Four: Live a exemplery life according to the scriptures and the statutes of the Mother Church. You are allowed to make mistakes, even big ones like running around shagging everything that moves (St Francis), dabble in the occult arts (St Augustine) take part in private wars and bllod feuds (St. Ignatius of Loyala) as long as you realise you were a naughty boy or girl and made up for it latter on.
Five: Cause a miracle or three. These can happen while you're still breathing or when you've shuffled off the mortal coil. Being dug up and still displaying no signs of decay after being worm meat for a few years is always a blinder and will certainly get you noticed. Now a days the miracles go before a panel of thre judges, often chosen for the scepticism or lack of faith (in recent years there have been non-catholics, even non-Christians approached for the task) and a priest known as the devils advocate. These people will try and disprove that any miracle took place and root around to see what dirt they can find out about you, basically they are going to try and stop your cause being moved forward.
Six: Horay1 You passed you'll now be made a saint and as your fame for miracles increases you'll adavance through the different grades of Sanctity until you get given your own feast day or maybe made the Patron Saint of somewhere or something.

Of couse it was a lot easier in the past which is why you have saints with very dubious natures, christianised pagan dieities and completely made up characters venerated as local or universal interceeders.


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Postby eeyore » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:16 am

I believe there was a good trade in 'holy relics', bones/hair/bits of true cross etc? Maybe I'm in the wrong business?
Of course, the smartest one was St Micheal. I'm sure we've all worn some of his designer gear at some time?
That's something that really gets to me, what is all this c**p about 'designer wear', EVERYTHING is designed by SOMEBODY!



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Postby Adam the Archer » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:24 am

An 'unusual' saint is St Charles (as in the king who was murdered by parliament - ducks before I get a torrent of abuse). He is the only saint to have been canonised by the Church of England. Although in recent years the C of E has published a list of worthy men and women, who are celebrated for their example and holiness.



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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:04 pm

I read today that Cardinal newman is to become the "first Englishman to be made a saint since the Reformation" which is starnge as I'd have thought Thomas Moore and the 40 martyrs of England and Wales had well beaten him to that slot.


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Postby Ellen Gethin » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:36 pm

Technically speaking, Charles I, King and Martyr wasn't made a saint by the Church of England. He was just commemorated in the Book of Common Prayer. Though he is popularly referred to as Saint Charles, the CofE have never really been into making new saints.


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Postby ViscontesseD'Asbeau » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:48 am

We didn't chop his head off - we just modified him. :D



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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:18 pm

I thought that the C of E looked upon its congregation as being saints, in the same way that St. Paul refers to the early Christian communities as being assemblies of saints. I confess that the Anglican Church is not a speciality of mine so if this is all wrong I apologise now.


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Postby Ellen Gethin » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:23 pm

I'd say that the more evangelical CofE congregations go for the community of saints idea, the middle of the road congregations don't really think about it, and the Anglo-Catholic congregations think the same as the Catholics (about everything except the Pope).
(I'm middle of the road verging on 'smells and bells' Anglo-Catholic myself)


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Postby Nutcracker » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:26 pm



Veteri frondescit honore

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Postby Brother Ranulf » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:22 pm

"a 13th century dog that received local veneration as a saint" is not the same thing as being sanctified by the Church. Loony locals . . .


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Postby nix » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:37 am

well bernard cromwell normaly does quite resonable research and puts declaimers up, can we find other animals, and yes i no there not real st`s but i only ever play ignarent scum any way so i like the idea of it( it must have been quit popular to last till the 1930`s despite being put down by the churchl.


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:18 pm

He is however just an author, not a historian. (I get bugged when people seem to quote "The Sunne In Splendour" as gospel truth), and one who has a bit of an axe to grind when it comes to Christianity as there is an anti Christian theme running through his Celtic, Saxon and Medieval trilogies. Its reasonably clear that the main character and his father in the Harlequin booksknow that there is no such saint, and are in fact having a piss-take.


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Postby gregory23b » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:33 am

"Of couse it was a lot easier in the past which is why you have saints with very dubious natures, christianised pagan dieities and completely made up characters venerated as local or universal interceeders."

Indeedy, St <add name> obscure part of Germany was a tree god....I love it.


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:08 pm

St Wotan?


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Postby red razors » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:21 pm

Marcus Woodhouse wrote:One: Belong to either the Catholic, Orthodox or Eithopian Churches as none of the others make saints.

technically, the church doesn't make saints, it recognises them ;) i'm pretty sure i read that there are protestant saints recognised by the catholic church, and vice versa; or should i say saints recognised by both religions. st fin barre is one.



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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:22 am

No the Catholic Church does not recognise good, holy people of other Christian denominations, not even the Eastern ones as being viable for Sainthood, nor does the Eastern Orthodox Church. The reformed churches/protestant, non Catholic ones the offical line is that they have steped outside the Apostolic Line by rejecting the See of St.Peter. Therefore they cannot put forward individuals from their churches as suitable for selection by the Pope. It's a bit like taking something that doesn't work to a shop you didn't buy it at and expecting them to exchange it. It is surely a moot point when the concept of saintly intercession is not a feature in non catholic/orthodox/ethipoean forms of christianity. My baptist wife would laugh at the notion of her becoming a saint as she thinks I'm off my head asking saints to pray for me anyway! Getting her made a saint and erecting a statue in her honour at my local chapel would be the only way I'd ever get her to sit through a Mass!


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Saintly man hood...

Postby jelayemprins » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:24 am

St. Alkmund's speciality is curing impotence in men, you see when that spear went through him it ended up slicing off his old man, sadly this never became his emblem, the mental image being to much for the church to cope with I guess but it did mean that up to the Reformation men who had problems getting it up would take waxen images of their forsaken members to Derby in the hope that offering them upon the shrine of St. Alkmund would put some lead back into their old pencils. I kid you not on this.

Marcus- youre' amazing. I'm quite into hagiography but this is a new one on me! Congrats!
PS why take a waxen image of John Thomas with you when you can take the real thing and offer that instead [ :shock: ]
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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:57 pm

Oye what are you trying to say about me auld man!! :lol:


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