How to improve battles?

Historic questions, thoughts and other interesting stuff

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craig1459
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Postby craig1459 » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:57 am

Dickie wrote:
craig1459 wrote:Well the Sealed Knot hang people and burn witches :D

In the 10 odd years I was in the SK, we hung a few people, but I never recall burning witches.

Never in front of the public anyhoo...


My captain told me about this a couple of weeks ago - they had some sort of system whereby the witch was strapped to the stake and there was a semi-circle of paraffin or somesuch round the crowd-side base of the pyre. So from the front it looked like the witch was being burned. Now he's been in the Fed at least ten years so it probably pre-dates that. Must ask...


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Fillionous
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Postby Fillionous » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:15 pm

Please be aware though that, historically in England, witches were hung or sometimes stoned... Heritics were burned. Different crimes, different punishments...
Don't fall into the Hollywood expectations, because it just continues bad myths and worse history.

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craig1459
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Postby craig1459 » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:31 pm

Fillionous wrote:Please be aware though that, historically in England, witches were hung or sometimes stoned... Heritics were burned. Different crimes, different punishments...
Don't fall into the Hollywood expectations, because it just continues bad myths and worse history.

BE bright, be bold
Fillionous


I know :) this is just what my captain told me that the SK did in his day (which was > 10 years ago) I think he would rather he was on the pyre than do anything so wang today


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Postby Foxe » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:50 pm

Both high and petty treason were burnable offences too don't forget. Petty treason might include a wife's rebellion against her husband, or a servant's against their master. Not suggesting that every time a wife said she had a headache she got burned for it, but if one wanted to do burning (and frankly it wouldn't be possible to do it well) then it needn't just be for heresy or *shudder* witchcraft.


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Allan Harley
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Postby Allan Harley » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:52 pm

Getting back on the theme - with limited but reasonable numbers at Lincoln we managed to ensure that over 3 days the battle flowed with activities happening all the way through for 40 mins including

Proper columns of march
Differnt unit formations
Individual combats
Archery at blocks and other targets
Moving artillery

All thoroughly enjoyable to those taking part and for the crowd - who were baying for more and actively involved in the plotlines

Want more like that


Away from the battle all are soldiers.

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Postby craig1459 » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:19 pm

Allan Harley wrote:Getting back on the theme - with limited but reasonable numbers at Lincoln we managed to ensure that over 3 days the battle flowed with activities happening all the way through for 40 mins including

Proper columns of march
Differnt unit formations
Individual combats
Archery at blocks and other targets
Moving artillery

All thoroughly enjoyable to those taking part and for the crowd - who were baying for more and actively involved in the plotlines

Want more like that


Yes - it was rather fun! Cracked me up getting abuse from the MOPS :lol:


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:48 pm

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Ben Rodgers
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Postby Ben Rodgers » Sat May 06, 2006 10:18 pm

one thing that ruins the battle for me is ithe horses that come in and out have a bit of a ting and then leave it would look so much better if you could get train billmen to fight against them It would add a bit of varity and could be a real crowd teaser


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Postby James The Archer » Sun May 07, 2006 11:36 am

ONLY IF SOME WAY OF ENSURING THAT THE HORSE WOULD NOT BE HURT,
we volunteer to go and fight - they don't!


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craig1459
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Postby craig1459 » Sun May 07, 2006 11:43 am

You couldn't do it for any number of reasons

Risk of injury to the infantry
Risk of injury to the horse
Risk of injury to the rider
Risk of distress to the horse and effects e.g. bolting into other soldiers, crowd
And of course...Insurance!


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Postby Ben Rodgers » Sun May 07, 2006 5:37 pm

I disagree Ive done it in training IF TRAINED the risk of injury to both horse and soldier and rider is minimal as the blade does not even go near the horses direction, unlike in a bill bloke when you aiming at one or two people this is fairly well organised as it is on to one, all shots are aimed at the rider upper body and all shots are pulled as to limit the amount of damaged. The whole fighting against a horse/man/woman has to be orcastrated anyway otherwise it would not work and the risk of injury would become greater

As for what James said if that is the case with some then obviously it isnt possible and you have to respect the riders for it. I for one would not fight against a horse if i was not comfortable with the rider I was meant to be fighting.

Both soldier and rider both have to be confident in doing this otherwise as Craig said the risk would be to great. As for insurance i would assume we are covered and the riders and horse also.


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Postby Foxe » Sun May 07, 2006 6:37 pm

At one small skirmish I took part in some years ago at Pendennis I had the joy of being allowed to volunteer to be the guy who took the nasty Norman horseman out of the saddle with a dane-axe. b**ger me but it looked great, and the public roared for the plucky little Saxon.

However, that one piece of action involved 3 people (me, the cavalryman, and the guy who caught the bridle of the loose horse), lasted at least 15 seconds, and took hours to rehearse. To try and do it on any larger scale would be impossible. Plus, I ought to point out that the rider was a sergeant in the Royal Horse Artillery, specially picked to be a part of this display team. With no offense intended to re-enactment riders, I doubt that many of them come up to his level of training and experience.

The authentic use of cavalry in battles is something which has plagued re-enactors since the dawn of time (or at least since authenticity became an issue). Unless you're prepared to start sacrificing horses or the enemy infantry it just can't be done right.

The real question is would it be better to have the cavalry riding round and round the field occasionally going "ting" with anyone who gets in their way and generally looking like posers on nags; or to dispense with the cavalry altogether, fight a more realistic battle, but lose the horsey spectacle?

OR, is there actually some magic way of using cavalry in a convincing manner that has yet to be found?


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Allan Harley
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Postby Allan Harley » Sun May 07, 2006 8:40 pm

To quote from EH who surveyed Mop's at events - "One horse is worth 100 men on foot"!

We have to do more to interlink - what about increased training between regular riders and households over the off season planning for the next

Fake charges from the mounted troops driving unformed infantry into retreat but shying from formed troops

All ideas welcome since I am a dedicated foot fighter and think of horses as burgers on legs


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Postby gregory23b » Sun May 07, 2006 10:32 pm

mmm good and bad memories of horses at ECWS,

good = pike block being charged, felt the gorund rumble etc, even when they sheared away it still was a buzz inducing moment.

Bad = horses on our own side at Battle of Worcester, they were second rate horses unused to the noise we generated in even a small battle - the usual lot ahd been prior booked. They were so skittish that our unit refused to stand behind them and basically said no and made enough space between them and us. I felt sorry for the horses at that event as they were out of their experience range.


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