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Historic Cooking Fires

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:37 pm
by Colin Middleton
After discussions with the Iron Dwarf and a few other people, I've been digging through my books for pictures of medieval cooking fires. So far, I've not found much, but I thought that I'd better get what I have found posted up here and I'll add to it as I find others.

Here are some pictures from History of Medieval Live by David Nicolle.

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:51 pm
by Colin Middleton
Here are some from the Great Household In Late Medieval England.

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:02 pm
by Colin Middleton
More from the Great Household In Late Medieval England.

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:14 pm
by The Methley Archer
Just to add some more

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:34 pm
by paul bennett
cheers for that image dude, I think Im going to make that table

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:48 am
by Dave B
There were some good images on this subject on the old forum from last time we did this one in depth. I think it's still possible to get back to and search the old version, but I can't remember how just now.

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:17 pm
by Colin Middleton

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:23 pm
by Colin Middleton
Here are some pictures from The Medieval Woman: An Illuminated Book Of Days by Galileo

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:25 pm
by Colin Middleton
I've got a few more to post (so far), but we're getting a general direction here of cooking on the floor. I've seen grills and spit racks in front of the hearth and chains hung from the chimney hood, but in just about every instance, the fire is on the floor.

I'll keep searching.

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:30 pm
by The Iron Dwarf
some interesting things there colin, not much like mine but I will be looking at making a few other related items soon to see if they sell as well.

thank you for posting them

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:08 pm
by Colin Middleton
There's more to come when I get time to add them. There MAY even be a fire box as we understand it in a piture of Hell, with the Devil lying on it.

Theotherone has posted some links on this before. Try looking at these:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food-art/
And from the 1570s
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food-art/field_kitchen.gif

She's also sugested that this may show the fire lifted off of the floor (but I can't view it at work so I can't comment right now):
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food-art/main_kitchen.gif

Best wishes

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:24 pm
by Colin Middleton
Another load of pictures. This time from the Medieval Panorama, edited by Robert Bartlett.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:28 pm
by chrisanson
nice fire dogs in that one, if i had an open fire place............. oh sod it, i might make some anyway 8)

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:32 pm
by Colin Middleton
And more from the Medieval Panorama, edited by Robert Bartlett.

This top picture is perhaps the most significant for our debate. It does appear to show some form of solid grill, in this case driven by a number of bellows.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:50 pm
by Colin Middleton
From Chronicles of the Age of Chivalry by Elizabeth Hallam.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:56 pm
by Colin Middleton
And finally from Page 1 of the Beauchamp Pageant.

Re: Historic Cooking Fires

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:12 am
by Karen Larsdatter

Fireboxes!

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:12 pm
by jelayemprins
And not a piece of modern steel or a tig weld in sight!

come on guys, we're suposed to be recreating history, not living in a dreamworld.

If you're gonna do period cookery then howabout doing it on the floor as ALL THESE REFERENCES SHOW?

There are many ways to get over the EH / NT regs about fires off the ground. PM me for details.

Or pop along to Pensthorpe where we actually [shock horror] did fire pits and barbq hogs n deer for real.

No red carrots either!
hehe

Re: Fireboxes!

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:19 pm
by Alan E
jelayemprins wrote:[snip]...
If you're gonna do period cookery then howabout doing it on the floor as ALL THESE REFERENCES SHOW?

There are many ways to get over the EH / NT regs about fires off the ground. PM me for details.
...[snip]
hehe

Not quite all of them, for example from Karen's site there is a link to this http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server ... 004933.JPG which has three images of off-the-ground cooking.

If there are ways around regulations about fires on the ground, why not share them on the forum? Surely that's what everyone is looking for - a way to show as nearly as possible what was done, without damaging heritage (or otherwise sensitive) sites?

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:05 pm
by gregory23b
The only issue with the off the ground fires in those pics is that it is not clear if it is indoors or outdoors, the images are very stylised. Mind, for a long term outside use then you could build a raised fire, but then you would need a roof.

Re: Fireboxes!

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:14 pm
by The Iron Dwarf
jelayemprins wrote:And not a piece of modern steel or a tig weld in sight!

come on guys, we're suposed to be recreating history, not living in a dreamworld.

If you're gonna do period cookery then howabout doing it on the floor as ALL THESE REFERENCES SHOW?



actually there is NO TIG welding on any of my stuff, but some components are hand forged

also I have never said my fireboxes are authentic, just that they are practicle, easy to use and with a bit of use can be made to look better.

I will also happily look out for you having a fire on the ground at places like wrest park to see how the people there feel about it.

and as for
ALL THESE REFERENCES SHOW?
maybe some of them show different things.

I make things I think will work and if at every event I sell out ( and without telling lies about authenticity ) I will make more for the next event.

at kelmarsh recently at the same time I had a WWII german officer and a Viking buying the same type of firebox and both said it was perfect for their needs.

as im a relative newbie who am I to argue .

I will no say something is authentic for a period if I dont know but I will say I dont know, If I think there is no proof for an item before the 19c I will say that.

unlike some traders selling genuine medieval Knights / stargazer chairs.

most here like what I do so I will continue

Re: Fireboxes!

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:37 pm
by chrisanson
jelayemprins wrote:And not a piece of modern steel or a tig weld in sight!

come on guys, we're suposed to be recreating history, not living in a dreamworld.

If you're gonna do period cookery then howabout doing it on the floor as ALL THESE REFERENCES SHOW?

There are many ways to get over the EH / NT regs about fires off the ground. PM me for details.

Or pop along to Pensthorpe where we actually [shock horror] did fire pits and barbq hogs n deer for real.

No red carrots either!
hehe



tad rude dont you think?

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:21 pm
by craig1459
There's a Vike era firebox and grill of some description in the Stockholm museum, although I think it belonged to a smith

Re: Fireboxes!

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:10 am
by Fox
jelayemprins wrote:There are many ways to get over the EH / NT regs about fires off the ground. PM me for details.


Don't mess about.
Every site we go to, almost without exception (and not just EH / NT), insists on fires raised off the ground.

This is a frustration to me; I've spent my childhood in the scouting movement lighting fires in stone-lined firepits, but now we have to carry around a really inconvinient, heavy and inevitably dirty firebox.

If you have a way round this, don't suggest we PM you; just tell us!

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:33 am
by robin wood
Nice thread and pictures Colin, thanks for posting.

Re: Fireboxes!

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:48 am
by chrisanson
Fox wrote:
jelayemprins wrote:There are many ways to get over the EH / NT regs about fires off the ground. PM me for details.


Don't mess about.
Every site we go to, almost without exception (and not just EH / NT), insists on fires raised off the ground.

This is a frustration to me; I've spent my childhood in the scouting movement lighting fires in stone-lined firepits, but now we have to carry around a really inconvinient, heavy and inevitably dirty firebox.

If you have a way round this, don't suggest we PM you; just tell us!


perhaps its something that shouldnt be done as it needs to be PMed?
:roll:

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:28 am
by The Iron Dwarf
or more likley "go to another venue" like Pensthorpe instead of tewks, kelmarsh et al

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:56 am
by chrisanson
I just think that there is loads of scope for helpful hints and tips but find the holier than thou type stuff not only unhelpful but bloody annoying . most of the worst offenders you could probably walk around there LHC and make a list of the wang . but on here its different init? Why do people feel the need to big there selves up so much? Most of the time it just makes you look like a tw*t. How about just helping each other out a bit eh? Oh and lets not insult peoples work especially those that are trying to make an honest living.

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:10 pm
by Colin Middleton
Back to the subject, some-one posted these very nice links in the Friends and Gossip section on cooking pots:

A raised fire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Medieval_kitchen.jpg

A slightly raised fire-bead/hearth:
http://www.sewerhistory.org/images/wh/whm/whm03.jpg

And back to a picute of a pot hung over a fire on the ground :D
http://www.arfjfu.com/images/medieval%20cook.jpg

Robin, It's the Iron Dwarf that you can thank for starting it with his requests for information.

Best wishes all

Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:35 pm
by paul bennett
the raised fire issue is not likely to be solved by a re-enactors suggestion. It is a standard detail in all risk assessments because the insurers require it, and they dont listen