Celebration of Celts 2008

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Gobae
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Celebration of Celts 2008

Post by Gobae »

This year Celebration of Celts took place at the Columbia County Fairgrounds in Chatham, NY on May 3rd &4th. This was the third year Ancient Celtic Clans has participated in the Celtic Timeline.

(Complete photos can be found here: http://www.celticclans.org/demos/coc2008.html)

Building on the success of the previous years, we continued to demonstrate spinning, weaving, baking, blacksmithing, and cooking. What was new was the addition of woodturning, cooking with a stone griddle and use of straw as bedding in our tents. All of these things were a stunning success!

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Originally built to turn spokes for our cart project, this event saw the first real use of our pole lathe. We were fortunate enough to have an experienced woodturner, Joe, as one of our members. As he soon discovered the technique for a pole lathe is a bit different from modern constant rotation lathe. However, after a day of tweaking his technique he was easily able to turn out items of the same quality that he could on a modern lathe.

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One of our fantastic successes was the functionality of this stone griddle. Although evidence for this is sketchy at best, it functioned unbelievably well. Here it is seen cooking oatcakes.

The public continued to be intrigued by the baking, weaving and now the woodturning. We had a LOT of interest and got complimented several times for teaching them something they didn't know; which was the main goal of the event.

For the first time we used a rope barrier. While we initially eschewed this because we wanted to engage the public, it seemed to actually increase audience participation. We think this might be because it gave the public the feeling of a "safe area" for them that they didn't have figure out for themselves.

As far as the "anachronism dept" is concerned we still have to get/make bronze replacements for our cast iron, and tweak our clothing styles, but we made a serious dent in blatant visible anachronisms (plastic containers, glassware, etc.) It was quite heartening to see and feel what a difference such a focused effort could make in the immersive experience both for us AND the public looking in.

Ariarnia
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Post by Ariarnia »

Can I ask what you use for your baking and blacksmithing?

A kiln would allow our potter to do more on site, baking would be a welcome addition, and blacksmithing seems hard to find images about pre-1350.

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Post by Alan_F »

Ariarnia wrote:Can I ask what you use for your baking and blacksmithing?

A kiln would allow our potter to do more on site, baking would be a welcome addition, and blacksmithing seems hard to find images about pre-1350.
Can't speak for kilns, but aren't there various images for blacksmithing from the Romans?
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Post by Gobae »

We bring in stone slabs and bury them. Here's a couple of shots of this year's setup.

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As you can see the fire is built right in the oven itself. This is kept going for about 1-1/2 to 2 hours. This is then raked out and the bread put in.

Yes, there are some Roman illustrations of blacksmithing operations. However, as noted on our forge reconstruction page http://www.celticclans.org/projects/forge.html we went with the scant Celtic references.

Here's the forge layout we used.

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Now, this layout is a bit scant because it needs to be torn down after use. If this were a permanent set up, I'd make a clay/stone heat shield for the tuyere to go through, and anchor the rest of the hard tuyere sections by mounding earth over them or burying them. This would dissipate heat from any gasses that might get pulled back and further preserve the tuyere parts. Additionally, the anvil stump (and bick stump) would be firmly anchored in the ground.

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Post by Medicus Matt »

Valved bellows? :?

What's your dateline Gobae?
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Post by Medicus Matt »

Ariarnia wrote: blacksmithing seems hard to find images about pre-1350.
What do you need? If it's examples of tools and equipment then there's plenty of them. PM me for details.
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Post by Gobae »

400CE Ireland/Dal Riada.

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Post by Alan_F »

Gobae wrote:400CE Ireland/Dal Riada.
Is that BC or AD?
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Post by Gobae »

CE (Common Era) = AD

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Post by Gobae »

I should add that single chamber valved bellows were chosen for a couple of reasons.

1) They were already in use on the continent (at least that's what the images look like they are)

2) There's no evidence to contradict their use (which I realize isn't a great argument to do/use something).

3) They require significantly less leather to make than bag bellows.

If some insular bellows are ever discovered (or described) it'd make life a LOT easier.

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Post by Alan_F »

Gobae wrote:1) They were already in use on the continent (at least that's what the images look like they are)
Yes, but something that's in use in one country doesn't always get used in other countries.
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Post by Gobae »

Very true. But with no evidence for any bellows of any sort it didn't seem a big jump.

In fact, IIRC, when I was originally doing research for this, the only instances of bag bellows discovered were African in origin. Which was another reason I went the direction I did.

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Post by Nigel »

Gobae wrote:CE (Common Era) = AD
speak English please this is and English forum none of your colonial nonsense here
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Post by Gobae »

speak English please this is and English forum none of your colonial nonsense here
If that sentence is an example of the English you want used, I'm not sure I can follow suit.

Additionally, I really had no idea two little letters would cause such distress. Are American spellings an issue too?

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Post by bournio »

People get fussy about things like that... but in all honesty as long as it's understandable it doesn't really matter!

I only know about CE through our RE lessons in school... something about it being apparently less offensive to people of other religions?
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Post by Gobae »

Yes, that's correct. Since AD stands for "Anno Domini" or "the year of our Lord" and since not everyone believes he is Lord that causes them angst.

Personally, I don't much care either way.

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Post by bournio »

it's odd how things that you learnt 7 years ago that didnt seem important stick in the mind!
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Post by Aelfric »

Gobae wrote:Yes, that's correct. Since AD stands for "Anno Domini" or "the year of our Lord" and since not everyone believes he is Lord that causes them angst.
If it offends then just don't use a Christian calendar rather than bastardising it

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Post by guthrie »

Hmmm, you have evidence for bellows like that in use on the continent in 400AD? Interesting. A bit before my time though, I can bore you on the topic of medieval bellows though.

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Post by Nigel »

Gobae wrote:
speak English please this is and English forum none of your colonial nonsense here
If that sentence is an example of the English you want used, I'm not sure I can follow suit.

Additionally, I really had no idea two little letters would cause such distress. Are American spellings an issue too?
Well given Iam dyslexic why dont you jsut go and f*** yourslelf you arrogant yank bastard

or maybe you'll just bomb me oh forgot you ddi that to one of my cousins in 1990
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Post by Medicus Matt »

guthrie wrote:Hmmm, you have evidence for bellows like that in use on the continent in 400AD? Interesting. A bit before my time though, I can bore you on the topic of medieval bellows though.
Double bellows with valves were in use by the fourth century and were common enough for Ausonius to use them as a simile for the action of a landed fish in his poem 'Mosella' so using them in a 5th C Irish context isn't too much of a stretch.
Only reasons that we used bag-bellows on our forge and smelting furnace at Chedworth was that they were easier to make and because we sometimes had to portray smiths working during an earlier period.


Oh, and this...
2) There's no evidence to contradict their use (which I realize isn't a great argument to do/use something).
Bad Gobae, go sit on the naughty step.
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Post by Fox »

Medicus Matt wrote:Oh, and this...
2) There's no evidence to contradict their use (which I realize isn't a great argument to do/use something).
Bad Gobae, go sit on the naughty step.
In the context of the rest of his argument it's OK; I take it from what he's saying is that if he had reasonable evidence for an alternative design in normal use he'd take that as contradicting evidence.

But you'd be stupid to say "Everywhere else they used B, but in Ireland we've only found 1 A for this period, and no B at all, so the Irish clearly only used A". There is simply no way to tell, and its a judgement call.

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Post by Medicus Matt »

Fox wrote:
In the context of the rest of his argument it's OK; I take it from what he's saying is that if he had reasonable evidence for an alternative design in normal use he'd take that as contradicting evidence.

But you'd be stupid to say "Everywhere else they used B, but in Ireland we've only found 1 A for this period, and no B at all, so the Irish clearly only used A". There is simply no way to tell, and its a judgement call.
I know what he means and I agree, but it was a very bad way of putting it.
When faced with a lack of specific contextual evidence then going with a reconstruction of something that was known to be in use elsewhere within reasonable geographical proximity is reasonable enough.
However, they were using girt big double action box-bellows in China by this stage and had been doing so for hundreds of years..wouldn't want to see them being used in a 4/5th C Irish context just because there was no evidence that they WEREN'T being used, would we?
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Post by Sir Fletcher Phelps »

Medicus Matt wrote: However, they were using girt big double action box-bellows in China by this stage and had been doing so for hundreds of years..wouldn't want to see them being used in a 4/5th C Irish context just because there was no evidence that they WEREN'T being used, would we?
Oh I dunno....depends if it means that we can use Panda as fuel! :twisted:
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Post by Jim »

Sir Fletcher Phelps wrote:
Medicus Matt wrote: However, they were using girt big double action box-bellows in China by this stage and had been doing so for hundreds of years..wouldn't want to see them being used in a 4/5th C Irish context just because there was no evidence that they WEREN'T being used, would we?
Oh I dunno....depends if it means that we can use Panda as fuel! :twisted:
Why would you fuel a forge with fizzy drinks?



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Post by Jim »

Nigel wrote:or maybe you'll just bomb me oh forgot you ddi that to one of my cousins in 1990
That was Gobae?
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Post by Nigel »

Jim wrote:
Nigel wrote:or maybe you'll just bomb me oh forgot you ddi that to one of my cousins in 1990
That was Gobae?
No the americans in general I am working out a lot of angst at the moment going a long way back
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Post by Medicus Matt »

Sir Fletcher Phelps wrote:
Oh I dunno....depends if it means that we can use Panda as fuel! :twisted:
Too soggy to burn. All that bog-dwelling.
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Post by Jim »

Medicus Matt wrote:
Sir Fletcher Phelps wrote:
Oh I dunno....depends if it means that we can use Panda as fuel! :twisted:
Too soggy to burn. All that bog-dwelling.
That and the fact they are apparently masters of Kung-Fu, much like their be-shelled, amphibian brothers-in-combat. Which could make them difficult to shove into the fire.
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Post by Gobae »

Bad Gobae, go sit on the naughty step.
Yes, very true. Guilty as charged. You know I think a lot of things can be justified that way. :D

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