John Roy Stuart and Lord George Murray?

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Henrik Bjoern Boegh
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John Roy Stuart and Lord George Murray?

Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:24 pm

Hi,

I read through the chapter in Duffy's The 45 the other day. In that chapter Duffy tells about when John Roy Stuart and his Edinburgh Volunteers were assigned to help Lorg George Murray, Glengarry's and the baggage train. In the same paragraph he more than hints that John Roy Stuart and Lord George Murray were less than friendly towards each other.
Does any of you know of any other references to their relationship? Does anyone know exactly why they were opposed to each other? Was this just because of Lord George Murray's position in the debates in the War councils or was there other more personal reasons for this? Or just a result of them both being proud, haugty characters?

Cheers,
Henrik


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Tod
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Postby Tod » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:52 pm

I've not read that in any of my books, maybe it's in the Atholl papers? Next time you stay you're welcome to trawl the bookcase, you could be there for a while.
Why not write to Duffy and ask for his sources?
If true it ight be because JRS was bit maverick, but a dam good fighter, Murray liked to plan ahead.



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Postby Neil Johnston » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:54 pm

Henrik
Anything I have read on John Roy's dislike of Lord George dates to AFTER the Battle of Culloden when there were many Highland suspicions voiced about the loyalty of Lord George to the Jacobite cause.
I think there is something in John Roy's Gaelic poetry (poem on Culloden Day??) which alludes to this but I'd need to double check.
I can't recall any other episode of personal animosity during the campaign..... in fact at Clifton, John Roy came back to fight with the rearguard under Lord George.


By the way what leads you to describe John Roy Stuart as proud and haughty I have never heard him described as such. Stubborn, hard and Campbell-hating perhaps but probably no more proud or touchy than any other Highland gentleman.

Cheers
Neil


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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:44 pm

Neil Johnston wrote:Henrik
Anything I have read on John Roy's dislike of Lord George dates to AFTER the Battle of Culloden when there were many Highland suspicions about the loyalty of Lord George to the Jacobite cause.
I think there is something in John Roy's Gaelic poetry (poem on Culloden Day??) which alludes to this but I'd need to double check.
I can't recall any other episode of personal animosity during the campaign..... in fact at Clifton, John Roy came back to fight with the rearguard under Lord George.

I'll check the Culloden poem if I can find the link to it again.

By the way what leads you to describe John Roy Stuart as proud and haughty I have never heard him described as such. Stubborn, hard and Campbell-hating perhaps but probably no more proud or touchy than any other Highland gentleman.

Cheers
Neil


You caught me describing both of them by a description of one of them. Sorry.

Duffy gave me the impression that there was some kind of enimity between them before Clifton, but he might be reffering to the belief after Culloden that Lord George Murray was a traitor.
I'll check the book again and see if he has a source referance.

Tod,
Your and Neils bookcases are both on my list of places to visit in the UK :)
My own bookcase is slowly but steadily growing. I recieved Ships of the '45 and 1715: The Great Jacobite Rebellion just a couple of weeks ago. And the Clanranald book should get here later this month or early Descember.

Cheers,
Henrik


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Postby Neil Johnston » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:24 pm

Hi Henrik
No problem at all mate
Your English is a million times better than my Norwegian.:lol:

I'll check up on that Gaelic poetry tomorrow as well.......... too busy tonight.....

I have always wondered if this dislike of Lord George was partly because of his namesake Murray of Broughton who did turn kings evidence.
A name carried a lot of weight in the Highlands

Cheers
Neil


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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:38 pm

Neil Johnston wrote:I have always wondered if this dislike of Lord George was partly because of his namesake Murray of Broughton who did turn kings evidence.
A name carried a lot of weight in the Highlands

Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote:Stuart Reid hints in that direction. I don't remember exactly where but he claims that Lord George Murray has been mistaken for Murray of Broughton in the tradition of him being a traitor. It must be in one of his Osprey books or in 1745 A Military History of the Last Jacobite Rising. I'll have a look later tonight.


I've been spending most of last night and this evening trying to find back to where I've read this. But I just can't bl**dy find it! Frustrating! :(

Cheers,
Henrik
Last edited by Henrik Bjoern Boegh on Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Postby Grymm » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:18 pm

'Lament for the Brave who had fallen on Drummossie Muir' was the rant where John Roy hints at it all being Murrays fault and also because of the absence of the Macphersons and many of the best men, and the fierce blinding storm that blew in the faces of the Prince’s soldiers.....
In fact in later years when things started going breasts skywards in america his son is s'posed to have said "From April battles and Murray generals good Lord deliver us."


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