Coats

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Neil Johnston
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Coats

Postby Neil Johnston » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:29 pm

Hi All
Following the arrival of my lovely new sleeved waistcoat from Flying Canoe Traders I have been thinking about what would be the best coat for a 1745 era civilian Jacobite Lowlander to wear over the top of that on those very occasional cold days we get in the Scottish Lowlands......... Remember Lauder?!?!!:shock:
I 've hunted about a bit and reckon my choices would be similar to those shown below

1. Justaucorps. Like this French Marine item.....steady Andy R I'm not thinking of swapping continents....but a similar militia/civilian version as shown in Penicuik sketches. Again woolllen probably in a suitably sad brown/grey colour......well in any colour except red really :wink:

or

2.watchcoat/greatcoat type woollen coat with the capey bits. Kind of like the one shown in Like Hungry Wolves and Scottish Jacobite Army usually associated with Donald Farquharson

Any thoughts, suggestions, comments or gratuitous abuse about being a softy taken on board
Cheers
Neil
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Postby Tod » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:49 pm

I wouldn't go for a great coat. They are fine for walking about in, but rubbish when you are trying to fire a gun or having to run about.
Justaucorps are good, there are plenty of examples about the best being in the museum at Fort Willaim (if I remeber correctly). Or why not go for a normal frock coat. Warm, and high pose value - not that I'd ever pose , no not me.



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Postby Grymm » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:34 pm

S'true y'know I remember from a recent phone call Tod saying that he wasn't into posing about in a frock coat (ALL PIGS FUELLED AND READY TO TAKE OFF SIR!) :P


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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:45 pm

You probably know this allready Neil, but the Penniquick sketches shows the use of such great coats as well as the ordinary "Justacorps" looking coats. There's a character using a walking stick and having his musket resting on his shoulder. He appears to be wearing the long coat much like a cape, only the two topmost buttons by the collar being done.

Personally I'd go for one of the justacorps. They look a lot more stylish. And if you're really considering getting an epee it would match a lot better than the great coat anyway.

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Postby bonnieprincecharlie » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:10 pm

More clothes!? Remind me never to leave you alone with the treasury. On the other hand, if I'm ever forced to go on the run, I shall know where to find fresh sets of garb.


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Postby Neil Johnston » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:50 pm

Hi All
Thanks for the thoughts and views on what would be best. Keep them coming.

Tod
Have you got a pattern or picture of the correct type of frock coat?

Yes Arran, brown is so last season, so yet another outfit for service with the Prince Regent.......it's not all powdered wigs, velvet and silk for us guys on the front line you know :) I really have Shonna at the end of her tether now, the flat is creaking under the weight of wool!!:roll:

Hi Henrik
Yes "stylish Lowland/Edinburgh gent about town" is the look I'm going for..... you know me so well.:wink:

Tod posing?.......surely not, next thing you'll be telling me he doesn't have one of each of these types of coat already...and a few more besides.
Cheers
Neil


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Postby steve stanley » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:20 pm

If you can get a copy,"The cut of men's clothes" has 1730's-'40's patterns...'tho you will need the products of a small woolen mill to get the pleats right(can't you just tell I've been looking....)
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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:00 pm

Neil Johnston wrote:Hi All
Yes "stylish Lowland/Edinburgh gent about town" is the look I'm going for..... you know me so well.:wink:

Stylish Gent about town? Then you should get a walking stick as well! A good companion if you're out strolling the marketplace looking at fabrics to the wife (or your self), going to the sunday service, crossing an icy river because the local militia have destroyed the bridges, or if you don't want to get your hands dirty from beating any man who refuses to drink his bumper for the rightfu', lawfu' king. :wink:

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Postby Andy R » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:36 pm

Neil,

You've hit the nail on the head.

white justaucorps faced blue, with blue small clothes, and maybe, just maybe, white gaitors and a black tricorn trimmed with false gold lace.

It's the way forward I tell ya...!!


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Postby Grymm » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:59 pm

http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/in ... 2&w=24&r=Y does a nice pattern for a frock coat of the 1720s and 40s as well as a greatcoat pattern. I think Paul Meekins stocks her patterns. There is also Janice Ryan patterns http://www.jpryan.com/gentspatterns.html which are stocked by several of the US sutlers, the 1750s coat pattern with a couple of minor tweeks is good for a 30/40s coat.
Cut of mens clothes as mentioned above, if you can draw up your own patterns, but you'll have to track down a copy as new ones are like rocking horse pooh!
As a stop gap there is always an underwaistcoat, cut like your waistcoat but a tad shorter and made from 1or2 layers of linen, helps to keep out those lazy winds (When they go through rather than round you)


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Postby Tod » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:42 am

I've got a just about every pattern, give me a call and I'll drop in in the post.
Ed (Wina MacPod) has the Justuacorps one at the moment but she could post it to you. I have the frock coat pattern. It would make a coat like my maroon one.
Don't go for white it shows all the marks, and you'll end up speaking all frogy.

Did I tell you about the red/black tartan coat I'm having made 8)
It a present to myself after I went into shock, I gave cloth away :shock: , so now I'll have to buy some more for my militia coat.

However I did just get the roughest cloth know to man to make a new soldiers coat out of. I was offer Mike N's pattern, like that would fit :roll:



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Postby Neil Johnston » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:11 am

Cheers Tod
I might give you a call and chase the patterns up or might just spend the extra and get one made up. I spoke to Ed about coats and she was talking about maybe doing some after Spring Market when she has cloth.
Can't believe you gave away cloth, I am planning on selling 3 five yard plaids soon (well Shonna said it was them or her) and am struggling to cope with the thought of having only 3 left.

Mikey N's pattern........you mean the Action Man Jacobite Highlander Clothes pack pattern.... a tartan swatch makes you a plaid jacket and trews :lol:

Yes I had heard (only about 6 times now) about the red/black tartan coat.....possibly a bit garish for my taste.... but I'm sure the redcoats will find you easy enough to aim at :wink:

Thanks to Steve and Grymm as well for the information I'll chase up on those patterns and have a look at "cut of men's clothes" and see what is in there too.

Cheers
Neil


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Postby Tod » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:24 am

Neil, if you're selling plaid I know some boys who would be interested.

I can recommend a few people for frock coats.

One of which will be making me a coat in this red/black tartan I got, did I mention that?



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Postby m300572 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:49 am

the flat is creaking under the weight of wool!!


Tell the folks downstairs their building is unsafe and when they move out cut a hole in the floor, install a ladder and hoist for getting kit up and down and Lo! A cellar!! :shock: :lol:


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Postby m300572 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:51 am

Tod wrote:Neil, if you're selling plaid I know some boys who would be interested.

I can recommend a few people for frock coats.

One of which will be making me a coat in this red/black tartan I got, did I mention that?


Tod, I have a plaid length that's surplus - unfortunately it does look a bit McChav (its very close in design to burberry check) and has never been used - it was got as an emergency bit and I have never got round to overdying it to reduce its burberry-ishness - but if anyone needs it i could get it to you via Neil.

Peter


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Postby Andy R » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:54 am

m300572 wrote:
Tod, I have a plaid length that's surplus - unfortunately it does look a bit McChav (its very close in design to burberry check) and has never been used - it was got as an emergency bit and I have never got round to overdying it to reduce its burberry-ishness - but if anyone needs it i could get it to you via Neil.

Peter


Tod:

I dare you, no, DOUBLE DARE you to make a cloth bonnet from said cloth.

Then you too could be filled to the brim with chavvy goodness....


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Postby Eric the well read » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:30 pm

Tod wrote:One of which will be making me a coat in this red/black tartan I got, did I mention that?


Not as such :wink:
But did you mention if it took a crease?
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Postby m300572 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:47 pm

I dare you, no, DOUBLE DARE you to make a cloth bonnet from said cloth


I'll see what I can do - I can't make Derby this year due to impending additon to the family but I'll make one up when I have time and give it to Neil to pass on!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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Postby Neil Johnston » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:07 pm

Pete
It would be an honour to pass that on to Tod MacChav....need to make sure it doesn't clash with the frock though!!!
I'll make sure I have the camera ready as well
Cheers
Neil


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Postby m300572 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:28 pm

Its a full length plaid Neil so if it comes to the bit I could probably turn out a McBurberry frock coat as well! :shock: :shock:


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Postby Tod » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:35 pm

Chav, chavs, I use them as firewood. A tartan bonnet, I think blue velvet is much more suitable.



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Postby Henrik Bjoern Boegh » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:38 pm

You couldn't have a blue velvet bonnet without gold braid along the headband Tod... Embrace the gold braid! Embrace the dark side of 18th century clothes!

Evil people seem to have favoured wearing gold braid on either their coats or waistcoats. "Dudley Bradstreet" seem to have been one.

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Postby Mark P. » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:54 am

Here is a pic of some Gentlemen in Edinburgh, drawn by Paul Sandby about 1747-50.
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Postby Neil Johnston » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:39 am

Hi Mark
Thanks for that picture, I hadn't seen that particular one before.
From that it looks like the justaucorps/frock coat was more in evidence as Edinburgh civilian clothing although that caped greatcoat type does look so warm for winter wear :)
Cheers
Neil


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Postby Tod » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:08 pm

Which one in the picture is you?



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Postby Andy R » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:27 pm

Neil Johnston wrote:Hi Mark
Thanks for that picture, I hadn't seen that particular one before.
From that it looks like the justaucorps/frock coat was more in evidence as Edinburgh civilian clothing although that caped greatcoat type does look so warm for winter wear :)
Cheers
Neil


But, to be picky, you wear a great coat over your coat (justaucorp)

Although I have still been outside when I have worn as many coats as possible to keep the chill out.

I heartily recomend a Napoleonic pelisse in that respect. Riding on Salisbury Plain in a snow storm in sub zero temperatures, it kept me toasty warm it did.

Fair training for Leipzig next year...!


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Postby Tod » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:49 pm

Andy R wrote:I heartily recomend a Napoleonic pelisse in that respect. Riding on Salisbury Plain in a snow storm in sub zero temperatures,


Shouldn't you have been in bad kit with no food,and your horse should have been eaten some weeks before.
Knowing you I bet you have a tartan flask as well :lol:



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Postby Andy R » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:58 pm

Tod wrote:
Andy R wrote:I heartily recomend a Napoleonic pelisse in that respect. Riding on Salisbury Plain in a snow storm in sub zero temperatures,


Shouldn't you have been in bad kit with no food,and your horse should have been eaten some weeks before.
Knowing you I bet you have a tartan flask as well :lol:


Do I look French?
(okay, wrong question)

Do I look like a hapless minion of the Corsican dictator?

If we had eaten the horse(s) weeks before, the owner would have been very upset as they would still have been in their stables...!!!


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Postby Neil Johnston » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:54 pm

Hi Tod
I was going to throw it open in a "Spot the Neil" competition but decided that could be very dangerous..... I would say I was verging toward the rotund gent 2nd from the right :cry:
I can also think of a few who could be the camp one with the wicker basket standing beside him mind
....or are they indeed an early example of a study of the various stages of man...... in which case maybe I need a different coat for each stage :wink:
Cheers
Neil


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Postby m300572 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:44 pm

in which case maybe I need a different coat for each stage


Johnston you do NOT need any more kit!!!!


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