'Slavery' in C18th Scotland

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Mark P.
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'Slavery' in C18th Scotland

Postby Mark P. » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:49 pm

I know that slavery was also around in England at the same time but there is an interesting exhibiton on at Alloa Tower until 31st October.

Whith LH or arena displays showing the various strata of Scottish/Highland society would anyone be wiling to go as far as this?


Among the exhibits from all over Scotland is an engraved brass collar dating from 1701 worn by a local man forced into perpetual slavery.

Alexander Stewart is believed to be one of those who was sentenced to slavery.
He was one of four men condemned to death in Perth for theft and burglary in 1701.
His sentence was later reduced to that of a perpetual servant to Sir John Erskine of Alva.
The engraved brass collar which Stewart was forced to wear was found in the River Forth in Logie parish in the 18th century, suggesting he may have escaped servitude.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tay ... 048485.stm
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tay ... 048485.stm)

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Postby m300572 » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:59 pm

Coal miners were also in a state of more or less perpetual servitude at this time - they were in a similar position to medieval serfs and could be bought and sold with the mines.


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Postby Alan_F » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:01 pm

Wasn't there something at the end of the '45 rebellion that the Jacobite prisoners were considered not good enough to be slaves or is it just a myth?


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Postby m300572 » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:09 pm

It was standard practice to deport prisoners to the colonies (Caribbean and N America) as indentured servants - slaves for a term of 7, 14 years or life. Happened after Monmouth's rebellion as well as the Jacobits risings and to 'common' criminals - once the America's weren't available they were shipped to Australia but it had been found that black slaves survived the heat of the Caribbean and the Southern American Colonies better than indentured Europeans so that may be where the reference to Jacobites not making good slaves came from.


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Postby Nigel » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:56 am

On one of our mad scareabouts in the 90's Mr Price and myslef picked up the Jacobite prisoner lsit at Tilbury lsits what happened to all held there


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby Tod » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:08 am

"No quarter given" I think?



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Postby m300572 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:34 am

The CES (I think) published a list of Jacobite prisoners - lists theri known fates which are intersting -all the deserters from the Hanoverian army were executed, a high proportion of the English prisoners were executed, a fair number actually joined the army and large numbers were sent into serivtude in the colonies.


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Postby Mark P. » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:56 pm

I'm sure there used to be a leaflet produced by Tilbury Fort listing the fates of those Jacobite prisoners held there. Annoying things is I'm sure I had a copy and now I can't find it, still getting old now so memory may be playing tricks on me.

The actual sentence handed down and the final punishment received may not have always been the same. I know for army deserters although they were often sentenced to death they were often let off at the last minute, although obviuosly some were shot just to mainatin a level of uncertainty!
Similarly for Jacobite prisoners Stuart Reid records some outcomes for Jacobite prisoners viewed from an alternative perspective.

I seem to rememeber one sent to exile in Hertfordshire and another who ended up a Lt. Col. in the British army within about 10 years.

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Postby m300572 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:32 pm

sent to exile in Hertfordshire


He must have done something REALLY bad! :lol:


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Postby Scottish Lady » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:15 pm

The miners were bonded serfs to the mines,though as skilled men they wielded some power over the mine owners.
they fomed early unions or brotherhoods,with the greater demand for coal and thus more miners came by act parliment the emancipation acts of 1775 and 1799.
The Alloa collar may have been of someone sentenced as an unskilled worker to the mines or saltpans.
There would also have beem black slaves as servants to the gentry.
The Laird of Appin Dugald Stewarts black servant Oronoce was arrested on the 25 july 1750 for wearing the highland garb.
this is a secondry source from J T Dumbars costume of scotland.
more on the miners can be found in Christopher A Whatley The scottish society 1707 to 1830.

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Postby Alan_F » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:54 pm

m300572 wrote:It was standard practice to deport prisoners to the colonies (Caribbean and N America) as indentured servants - slaves for a term of 7, 14 years or life. Happened after Monmouth's rebellion as well as the Jacobits risings and to 'common' criminals - once the America's weren't available they were shipped to Australia but it had been found that black slaves survived the heat of the Caribbean and the Southern American Colonies better than indentured Europeans so that may be where the reference to Jacobites not making good slaves came from.


From what I can remember, the inference of what was being said was that they were too rebellious to be slaves and not of a good enough stock.


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Postby m300572 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:01 pm

Could well have been Alan - its not something I know a huge amount about - I do know the editor of the Somerset VCH volumes made a considerable study of the Monmouth rebellion prisoners who had been shipped to the colonies as indentured servants, there are references to deportation to further afield than Hertfordshire so I'd assumed it was much the same - presumably it was relatively easy for escapees to find sanctuary with sympathisers on the frontier of the new colonies - there were a fair number of emigrants even before the 45 and the numbers rose afterwards (including Flora MacDonald and her husband)- so the 'rebelliousness' would make them difficult to keep.


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Postby Alan_F » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:15 pm

I suppose from their point of view, these were people who had rebelled and were therefore 'tainted' with ideas of rebellion whereas the (african) slaves were being bought straight from the slave markets/tribe that had beaten them and may have been easier to scare.


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Postby Nigel » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:14 am

Mark P. wrote:I'm sure there used to be a leaflet produced by Tilbury Fort listing the fates of those Jacobite prisoners held there. Annoying things is I'm sure I had a copy and now I can't find it, still getting old now so memory may be playing tricks on me.

The actual sentence handed down and the final punishment received may not have always been the same. I know for army deserters although they were often sentenced to death they were often let off at the last minute, although obviuosly some were shot just to mainatin a level of uncertainty!
Similarly for Jacobite prisoners Stuart Reid records some outcomes for Jacobite prisoners viewed from an alternative perspective.

I seem to rememeber one sent to exile in Hertfordshire and another who ended up a Lt. Col. in the British army within about 10 years.

see my post above either you ahve it or I do

Colonel I assume youa re talking about fRAZER ?



MP


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby Mark P. » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:54 pm

Could definately use a copy of the leaflet if yours crops up amongst your stuff Nige.

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