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Prestonpans 21/22 September 2007

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:04 pm
by Tod
The original of this posting has been moved to the Re-enactors wanted section.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:27 pm
by Gerry
Unfortunately I have a British redcoat uniform, they appear to be looking for Hanoverians ie Germans.

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:06 pm
by bonnieprincecharlie
By Hanoverians, naturally, the organisers are referring to all those troops loyal to the House of Hanover, as distinct from the House of Stuart, rather than geographical/national distinctions.

Apologies if any misunderstanding has been read into that, but it is a reasonably well acknowledged form of distinction for ease of expression.

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:53 am
by Nigel
Its a well known expression and simply put both insulting and wrong

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:22 am
by bonnieprincecharlie
Re-iterated apologies on behalf of any organisers who may have used the term. It need be considered no more of an insult than the word Jacobite, with nothing more to it than a distinction between divided loyalties in a civil war.

The Prestonpans event promises to be a very good one, un-partisan, commemorating both the importance of the Stuart victory there, and the death of local personality Colonel Gardiner who lost his life fighting for the Government. The organising Trust plays an important role in the local community, and its goals are admirable.

If there are red-coat reenactors other than those currently signed up, who would like to attend, they will certainly be welcome and are encouraged to be in touch with the organisers.

Many thanks

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:01 pm
by Tod
No offence lads but I've reposted on the re-enactors wanted page. I have spoken to the organisers about using the description Hanoverians in order to get that put right on both the web site and the publicity.

The fact is that there were no Hanoverians involved in the '45 at all. The Hanovarian army was in Europe fighting another war. They of coarse are what we would now describe as Germans. The armies that faced the Jacobites were of coarse British, and were the British Army. Hence British Redcoat.

The Hanoverian term was brought in by the authors in the Victorian period when the whole '45 was some what romanticised. To use the term British would at that time have taken away some of the glory of the victorious army that had fought against Napoleon. It seems to me that the authors knew this and therefor had to find a "name" for an army that in their eyes had carried out acts that they considered wrong.
At the moment I'm reading a French book translated into English about BPC and it will be interesting to see what term they use for the army that faced the Jacobites.

The use of the word Jacobite at the time of the '45 and now is an accurate description of the followers of the house of Stuart which of coarse was descended from James. A very different thing from the house of Brunswick and L√ľneburg, although I was told that the Jacobites called the British soldiers Brunswickers - I can find no reference to this.

When I was in Hanover a couple of years ago I saw a painting of George II reviewing the Hanovarian Army in Hanover, interestingly the uniforms and coat colours were the same but the obvious difference was that nearly all the soldiers had moustaches.

The truth is that the '45 was civil war, its motives being purely to put James back on the throne. What ever way it is put it was the British against the British, and yes I realise that there was some Hessians, Dutch, French, etc involved in small numbers but the 99% of all both armies was British even if some of them wore the uniform of France (on the Jacobite side ).

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:34 pm
by bonnieprincecharlie
Well said Tod, no disagreement from me on any of that.

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:39 am
by m300572
Having just ploughed my way through Duffy's recent book on the '45, most of the foreign troops (Dutch etc) either arrived too late to be involved or were posted to areas of the country where they were used as garrison troops and police.

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:58 am
by Andy R
I thought there was some Hessian involvement in Perthshire in early '46?

Stuart Orme brought this up several years ago...

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:03 am
by Mark P.
A few excerpts from the Battle of Prestonpans website (http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... fault.aspx) which is looking pretty good. Posted here to try and split off from the Gunpowdermills thread.

In the battle media section a video from 1995
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... audio.html
(http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... audio.html)

And a bit about the 77th Highlanders from the Czech Republic
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1928
(http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1928)

MP

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:34 pm
by bonnieprincecharlie
Some images from the night march in there too - looking good.

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:54 am
by Neil Johnston
Lots of photos now appearing on Heritage Trust web-site of all the aspects of this event.
I think I've missed being in any of them.....probably due to my unfortunate habit of being a big ugly b*gger

Skirmish
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1956

Taking Cockenzie House and March
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1957

Afternoon
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1955

4 a.m. March
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/ ... ewsid=1941

Cheers
Neil

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:21 am
by Andy R
Hi Neil,

So when are they looking at doing another one?


Cheers,
Andy

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:46 am
by Tod
Andy the clue is in the date :roll:

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:49 am
by Andy R
Tod wrote:Andy the clue is in the date :roll:


Only if they do it then..!

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:11 am
by Henrik Bjoern Boegh
Neil Johnston wrote:I think I've missed being in any of them.....probably due to my unfortunate habit of being a big ugly b*gger


Or might it have been because you were wearing your lowland kit? :roll:

Thanks for the links!
I somewhat figured Gardiner to die by the sword rather than a durk...

Cheers,
Henrik

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:15 pm
by Neil Johnston
Hi Guys
All set for same time next year, I think, or nearest weekend to 21st September anyway. There is a meeting of the Trust in October so will probably hear more after that.

Hi Henrik
I thought Gardiner might have got a wallop with a Lochaber myself but the guy doing the "killing" was keen to use a dirk.

Maybe the Lowland kit was the factor in my lack of starring role right enough, I hadn't thought of that.....bloody Highlanders!!!! :lol:
Either that or since Arran was in lots of photos in his BPC kit, which is substantially European, I was actually right about the reason first time.

Cheers
Neil

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:35 pm
by bonnieprincecharlie
Neil,

first time i have ever been called 'substantially European'!

I'm sure your absence from the pictures was nothing personal - don't let it worry you: we both know most of the regiment is jealous of the scale of your wardrobe!

And frankly, I don't blame the good Colonel for demurring from facing a lochaber!

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:06 am
by Neil Johnston
Ah Arran
Thanks for the compliment :lol:
Sorry, "substantially European" does sound rather strange, it wasn't personal.........but I suppose if anyone could claim to be, then BPC could probably claim to be be.... born in Italy to British and Polish parents with any number of nationalities of grandparents

I think your own wardrobe is fairly substantial as I recall too :wink:
..........and as for Tod!!!!!!!!

See you soon
Cheers
Neil

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:17 pm
by Tod
Ok so I had to put up another wardrobe rail for the kit................ 8)