1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

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Andy R
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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Andy R » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:48 pm

Irish kilts are 20th century - and don't even start me on Cornish tartan...!


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die

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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby steve stanley » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:12 pm

I've always been under the impression that Highland-raised regiments,(as opposed to Clan regiments) looked much the same as other Scots regiments.........?


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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Andy R » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:18 pm

Depends on what you call highland and how you base that.

By modern (c18th up) east coast lowland units were Highland in the 18th century and very definately lowland in the C17th and before.

They are also, as Neil and I were discussing, not Q culture Gaels - one of the "tells" of Highland culture.

Which is one of many reasons I argued with Bill about the Fraser's identity - but that was an argument abouot picking an identity and re-enacting it, or picking an identitiy and re-enacting something different.


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby steve stanley » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:18 pm

Must admit I've never thought of the Gordons et al as 'Highland' (in terms of dress)for 1640's..........


"Give me a tent and a kettle

Snowshoes and axe and gun

Send me up in Grand River

Steering by star and sun".

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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Neil Johnston » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:45 am

Hi Steve I understand the perception is of the Gordon's regiments as regular Lowland regiments raised from the more easterly areas and I think a goood part of their units were.

However as I was discussing with Andy the Gordon family held a vast swathe of land which did include many "highland areas" in the Grampians and glens around there(FIddich, Livet etc.) as well as Sutherland and into Lochaber so there were many amongst their strength including Gordon's and Farquharsons etc who would have been Q-culture Gaelic speaking highlanders. It could be argued that the dividing Highland/Lowland line ran right through their own territories.
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Neil


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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby steve stanley » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:50 am

Hi Neil, I quite agree with you culturally...But if those guys were in a normal regiment...?


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Snowshoes and axe and gun

Send me up in Grand River

Steering by star and sun".

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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Neil Johnston » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:16 pm

Oh sure Steve, I would agree those joining the Strathbogie regiment would have been issued with more "uniform" kit without a doubt but the smaller Gordon detachments/regiments such as Minimores or Monaltries may have been completely highland in nature and appearance....more akin to say some of the highland units raised for service in the Bishops Wars which are described (I think by Baillie) in the camp at Duns or the Maclean's at Inverkeithing that's what we don't know for sure unfortunately :?
Gordons (SK)have both Lowland and Highland appearances to try and cover all the bases as best they can across the period
Cheers
Neil

Wow this has gone a long way from the sword or rapier hanger topic :D


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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby steve stanley » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:35 pm

.....Which is a good way to be....Bright's(I think) were ok with their Strathbogie look for Lanark the other year...?
Yes,it's becoming just like a pub conversation........ :)


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Snowshoes and axe and gun

Send me up in Grand River

Steering by star and sun".

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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Andy R » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:03 pm

June dug out the full patter on Donald Farquarson of Monaltrie's Rgt. of Foot, and they were dressed, armed and equiped as a regular pike and shot regiment


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Neil Johnston » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:21 pm

Interesting on Monaltries Andy.... I don't suppose you have any of the info to hand.........I know I never seem to have when anybody asks. 8-)
I'm still searching for a reference I found for a civil war period Highland( Clanranald) musketeer wearing a helmet that I promised Mike Netten before Christmas

As Steve says this would make a superb alcohol fuelled discussion for a pub/campfire sometime when we're all together
Cheers
Neil

ps As I recall Brights did a pretty good job of portraying the Strathbogie Regiment at Lanark a couple of years back


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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Andy R » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:26 pm

Hi Neil,

Drop June, or Tony a line.

This was started in the mid 90's and they have had a couple of house moves since then.

As they live in the right area they have access to a lot of local resources.


Myself I am looking for information to prove that Norse Gael highlanders has horned bonnets :thumbup:


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby steve stanley » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:09 pm

Andy R wrote:

Myself I am looking for information to prove that Norse Gael highlanders has horned bonnets :thumbup:


..To go with the Irish Piquet's shields.....?


"Give me a tent and a kettle

Snowshoes and axe and gun

Send me up in Grand River

Steering by star and sun".

- Labrador Trapper's Song

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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Andy R » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:11 pm

and leather armour and shields.

Cool or what..!


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby steve stanley » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:15 pm

But they really thought it was great research...........


"Give me a tent and a kettle

Snowshoes and axe and gun

Send me up in Grand River

Steering by star and sun".

- Labrador Trapper's Song

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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Andy R » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:20 pm

It was the confusion caused by the rebuff that made me laugh


Young men have often been ruined through owning horses, or through backing them, but never through riding them: unless of course they break their necks, which, taken at a gallop, is a very good death to die



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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby The Keeper of Mings Coat » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:20 am

Interesting to see the circulus.

Does anybody far more knowledgable know what forms of training and cuts were used for back and broadswords - as in the so-called mortuary, proto-mortuary types? Would be interested from an LH perspective. What were ECW era cavalry trained to do? Anything survive?


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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby Phil the Grips » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:27 am

"Pallas Armata" is the classic text for broadsword in that era-
http://pallasarmata.org/pa/index.html


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Re: 1618-1648 sword or rapier hanger

Postby The Keeper of Mings Coat » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:35 pm

Ta Phil. A bit like reading a period recipe book trying to fathom the moves out. Some head-scratching will follow.


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