The Great Start Up debate

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steve stanley
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Postby steve stanley » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:12 pm

Will await seeing prototype with interest.........
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Postby Foxe » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:04 pm

<Glancing nervously at my bank balance...>

Tod, have you seen this? A boot recovered from the wreck of HMS Stirling Castle (sank 1703), don't half look like a short lace up boot to me, albeit a crappy picture of one.

Image


...and further this Informant saith not.

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Tod
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Postby Tod » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:57 pm

A shoe with two lace holes maybe, not as uncommon as you might think. Where did you find the picture?



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Postby Foxe » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:22 am

IIRC it was sent to me by the curator of Ramsgate Maritime Museum in response to a query I sent him.

It looks to me to be a little higher than your average shoe, but as I said, it's not the best picture.


...and further this Informant saith not.

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steve stanley
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Postby steve stanley » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:42 pm

http://frontierfolk.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... 139#189139 The debate spreads to the new world..............
Steve


"Give me a tent and a kettle

Snowshoes and axe and gun

Send me up in Grand River

Steering by star and sun".

- Labrador Trapper's Song

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Bevis Gittens
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Re:

Postby Bevis Gittens » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:56 am

Tod wrote:Wow that was 2 years that I last posted on this thread. Since then I've done a lot of research. There is no evidence for laced start up style boots or the low laced boot that has appeared in the last few years.
All the pictorial evidence shows a pull on boot, at present I'm in the process of doing the patterns for these. As I put somewhere on this thread, think leather wellies.


Not wanting to stir up this nest but thought you might like to see the closest picture I have found of lace up startups... It is a charcoal maker dated 1610 from a statute dictating charcoal sack sizes. I say closest because the picture shows the boots with what looks like a slash/opening on the front but does not show any laces. As you say Tod all the other startup pictures look like 'wellies' that are pulled on.... Also looking through 'Stepping through time', which is admittedly is based on Dutch finds not British, there are no lace up startups: Toggled, pull on boots but no laced.

Image

Image

.....and I've just ordered some Sarah Juniper startups... never mind

Bevis

PS I don't do soldiering anymore, just poor rural peasant types so I’m allowed them :lol:


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Re: The Great Start Up debate

Postby Tod » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:26 am

I watched Dan Snow on TV last night, he made an excelent statement. "Was the artist telling the truth". In this case the bloke with the sack looks almost naked except the boots, the bloke on the left looks like he has Tudor slip on shoes (late C16).
The boots mabe slashed but that would be daft, maybe they have a closed gusset and we can't see the closing?



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steve stanley
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Re: The Great Start Up debate

Postby steve stanley » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:07 am

IMHO,they look a bit like those 15th/16th cent boots that pull the slack round & buckle/lace...?


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Snowshoes and axe and gun

Send me up in Grand River

Steering by star and sun".

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Re: The Great Start Up debate

Postby Nigel » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:53 am

A fair few pics in Occuaptional costume wot Debs has unfortunately no scanner :(


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Re: The Great Start Up debate

Postby Chris T » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:55 pm

The cover illustration of Mercurius Rusticus shows a pair of calf boots with what certainly looks like multiple lace holes........I really do not think that you can use period illustrations to prove a negative, especially as most are woodcuts or similar that lack detail.

Personally I think the 'doc martin' style lacing is not the most probable period fastening, as it does not seem to have become popular for several hundred years, and so seems a little unlikely for an old fashioned footwear style. Other posibilities include buckles, toggles, single lace, multiple laces through pairs of soles ,toggled/ eyeletted laces passing round the boot, and so on. It also needs to be considered that it is not required for an opening being on the front: many earlier short boots opened at the side.




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Re: The Great Start Up debate

Postby cloudy-cola-corp » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:41 pm

i thought they where called start ups because they where fairly generic enough to get away with being used in more than one period seeing as some of us multi period people can't afford to spend £120 on two pairs of shoes that quite honestly arn't very water proof (although my medieval shoes from tod have honestly never leaked) when they can buy one pair of boots for £100 that will roughly cover both periods





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