The Construction of Tudor Jacks, size XXXXS.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

The Construction of Tudor Jacks, size XXXXS.

Post by lidimy »

Hey :D

Well I guess you know about DLT... but basically he's pestering me for a jack but I don't know how to make it! Mab said that it's made with layers (of linen?) rather than stuffed, and I've looked at some sites that say that a jack should be stiff enough to stand on its own, but that doesn't really help as it's so small it will stand anyway! So how many layers will it need, is it literally just sewing a little grid to keep all the layers together or is there more to it?

I expect this is all common knowledge but I've never really looked into it.

And before guthrie tells me off for not using google, I did try honest! But 'Tudor jacks' didn't bring up much! :(

Thanks all :D

Lidi :D
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

Hobbitstomper
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:04 pm

Post by Hobbitstomper »

Ask Tuppence and have a look at her website. I'd suggest that a scaled down version would be 2 layers of fine Irish linen (white/natural colour) with a layer of wool cloth between.

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

OK. I can't access her site for some reason, the front page comes up but I can't see any links or anything, all a bit weird!

I don't know about Irish linen... I don't know what type of linen mine is but it's white. quite coarse too, I think.

So do you just stick the layers together and sew the little grid type pattern on top?

:D
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

Hobbitstomper
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:04 pm

Post by Hobbitstomper »

Irish linen is just linen from Ireland. It is normally really fine and would look good on a scaled down jack.

Debs' website is broken and appears to be linking to a single picture rather than a complete webpage. Try:

http://paddedarmour.deborahloughcostumes.com/

If you are doing stripes then just sew the material around the outside edge to hold it together then sew in stripes to create the stuffed padding effect. Some of the later stuff is sewn through at individual points instead of stripes. This is a lot easier but I don't know if this is Tudor though.
Don't forget to edge it or it will look naff.

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

OK.. so bind the edges with linen?

Debbie's site says:
Layered - be it layers of wool, cotton batting, felt, or linen.

Stuffed (1) - tubes stitched into fabric then stuffed.

Stuffed (2) - an inner and outer of linen / cotton, with raw wool or cotton
sewn into place between the layers.

Knotted - as with stuffed (2), but with the padding held in place by
hundreds of knots instead of stitching.

Layered stuffed - made as several surviving later medieval examples - an
inner sandwich of linen / cotton padded with raw wool or cotton, put
together with a similar outer sandwich.

Not sure which would be most suitable though! There are examples of late Medieval jacks that are constructed differently so I'm not sure which would be easiest.

If fine linen is the thing I could cheat and use some old sheeting instead? What do you think? :?

Lidi (:
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

Any more help going? :D PM'd Tuppence but no reply yet, though she's v.busy ATM isn't she?
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

Actually...depends on the date....late Tudor favoured "Jacks of Plate" with metal plate secured by stitching(much as I hate to rain on parades.....)
Think You're ok with the earlier style to about 1550?
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

Yeh, 1550 should be OK, there's no way I'm collecting little bits of metal and sewing (!?) them on! How do you mean earlier style...? With sleeves? Knotted or gridded? Stuffed or layered etc etc... :(
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

As far as I know...(And I'm sure to be corrected),by earlier style,all I mean is without metal plates..."18 layers of linen-reduced at the waist-...It must be emphasised that the jack is not made like a modern duvet...with two thicknesses sewn into tubular compartments which are the filled with stuffing.Obviously a blade would pass easily through the stitched but unpadded areas.When making a jack,the needle and thread must pass right through all the layers of linen or thick padding so there are no weak spots."(Gerry Embleton,Medieval Military costume) Modern sources seem to show more sleeveless versions in the 16thcent. than earlier,(which would make the job a little easier!),but,as I've said, I pretend to no great knowledge prior to 1642.............
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

Don't worry, it's all helpful! No sleeves is a definite help, so I guess that's the first one ticked off on my list of options...

At the minute I'm kind of leaning towards having multiple layers of linen and wool as it would be a good way for my scraps to go!

L :)
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

And plenty of spare needles!
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

hmm.. yes! Depends how many layers there are I guess!

He could end up being rather tubby!
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

Just remember....If a needle goes through too easily....So will an arrow!
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

Argh, good point!

Just tried, and it's impossible to get a needle through after 1o layers.

10 it is then :shock:
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

Not being a seamster(?)....how about going through 9(say),then another 9?...must have been a way of doing it then?
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

Oh... you must be kidding :lol: we're talking teddies here... he'll be a round linen ball if there are 18 layers swaddling him up!

So thick you can only see his little paws sticking out!
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

But a very safe teddy.............talking scale reduction it's the impression that matters...if it looks right it is right!
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

Thanks, that's probably what I wanted to know :D
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

Yes....suddenly remembered back in the '60's making historical outfits for my Action man...NEVER try a Landsknect!
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

I'll be sure not to :lol:

I imagine action men might be more fiddly that bears though. I used to make outfits for my barbies when I was little, but, uh, with glue! :lol: :oops:

You literally had to cut them out...
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
steve stanley
Post Knight
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Location: Leicester

Post by steve stanley »

Roman lorica out of toothpaste tubes was fun.....................
Steve
"Give me a tent and a kettle
Snowshoes and axe and gun
Send me up in Grand River
Steering by star and sun".
- Labrador Trapper's Song

User avatar
Tuppence
Post Knight
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: chaos-world, west yorks
Contact:

Post by Tuppence »

have now replied. sorry - sewing

and for the record the site isn't broken, it's being re-done....

...in between sewing :lol:
"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."
Miss Piggy
RIP Edward the avatar cat.

User avatar
Tuppence
Post Knight
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: chaos-world, west yorks
Contact:

Post by Tuppence »

but just checked the padding one and that's fine, if in dire need of me finishing the updates.... http://www.paddedarmour.com/
"What a lovely hat! But may I make one teensy suggestion? If it blows off, don't chase it."
Miss Piggy
RIP Edward the avatar cat.

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

Thanks Tuppence :D
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

User avatar
sally
Post Knight
Posts: 1806
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:31 pm
Location: Sunny Wales
Contact:

Post by sally »

How is teddy for caps Lidimy? If you let me know his head measurement if I get a moment I'll knit him a little Monmouth Cap, that would be fun (and a nice distraction from what I should be doing :oops: )

User avatar
chrisanson
Post Centurion
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:23 pm
Location: Dudley

Post by chrisanson »

sally wrote:How is teddy for caps Lidimy? If you let me know his head measurement if I get a moment I'll knit him a little Monmouth Cap, that would be fun (and a nice distraction from what I should be doing :oops: )
thank you sally! i am glad not to be the only one silly enough to make “kit” for small bears :wink:

User avatar
sally
Post Knight
Posts: 1806
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:31 pm
Location: Sunny Wales
Contact:

Post by sally »

chrisanson wrote:
sally wrote:How is teddy for caps Lidimy? If you let me know his head measurement if I get a moment I'll knit him a little Monmouth Cap, that would be fun (and a nice distraction from what I should be doing :oops: )
thank you sally! i am glad not to be the only one silly enough to make “kit” for small bears :wink:
I tried to resist, but its strangely compelling :lol:

User avatar
lidimy
Post Knight
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: Flitting between the centuries.
Contact:

Post by lidimy »

Aw Sally he says he'd LOVE one! Shall PM you, thanks for the offer! It seems the bears are becoming corporate LH mascots!

Lidi :D
'As long as you have a coif on, you're decent.' Image

m300572
Post Centurion
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:11 pm
Location: NW England

Post by m300572 »

I used to make outfits for my barbies when I was little
Best Barbie outfit seen so far - Catwoman Barbie, complete with whip
Wilkes and Liberty, Wilkes and the Forty Five

User avatar
sally
Post Knight
Posts: 1806
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:31 pm
Location: Sunny Wales
Contact:

Post by sally »

Just to give a small bear something to look forward to, here's his new uber posh red flat cap in progress :lol:
I don't often get to use knitting needles this small 8)
Attachments
teddyhat.jpg

Post Reply