How to tell who is a Knight.

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PaulMurphy
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Postby PaulMurphy » Mon May 14, 2007 5:31 pm

lidimy wrote:BTW, got back to the long bow boy today, he said that the £390 covered the bow, a few spars strings, case, and a few dozen metal tipped arrows too. Does that sound more reasonable...?


Depends on the quality of the arrows - "proper" medieval style arrows made up with bound goose feather flights on a cedar shaft with a horn nock and a hand-forged broadhead would probably start from £12 and could be £20 per arrow for the very best examples, while a piece of dowel with turkey feathers and a self nock with a mod-bod head could be knocked out at about £3 each. Even then, a couple of dozen is still £72 of useful practice arrows.

Strings are generally fairly cheap (£5-10?), especially if you know someone who will make one for you, and a linen case is maybe £10 to buy, so you're still looking at £300 or so for the bow in the worst case. I've seen a very nice yew bow sold for £250 new (but plenty at £500+), and some very good composite construction longbows at £120-140, so it all depends on what you want and how much you're prepared to pay to get it.

For someone starting out, I'd recommend a cheapish composite bow. There are any number of suppliers who can do you something usable, but I'd recommend Bickerstaffe as long as you avoid the exotics such as Purpleheart:

http://www.bickerstaffebows.co.uk/

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Postby gregory23b » Mon May 14, 2007 6:21 pm

Steve Ralphs makes some very good ash bows, as well as higher end yew bows. Good value.

No sense in buying yew or spending over a 100 quid on a starter bow.

Yew = top end of bow scale

Ash = more commonplace 'mean wood'.


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Postby Marcus Woodhouse » Mon May 14, 2007 9:10 pm

Archery is soooo last century really my dear cannons are the thing of the future.


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Postby Chris, yclept John Barber » Tue May 15, 2007 8:37 am

Although I'm not an archer (though I can shoot well enough with a borrowed bow not to disgrace myself), there is one point I'd add to those suggesting a cheaper starter bow: draw weight.

With practice, you'll build strength and develop your technique. You'll find it easier to draw the bow and your stamina will get better. You might then want a more powerful bow (which gives a flatter trajectory, and therefore greater accuracy). If you've persuaded someone to kick out over £300 on a yew bow for a special birthday, that's not going to make you too happy.

So if you start with a decent lower-budget low-poundage bow (say 30-40lb draw weight), you can learn the basics and decide what you really want for that special birthday. If that turns out to be an 80-lb yew bow, you'll probably still want to hang on to the starter bow to continue to use in battles (there's a poundage limit to what you can shoot at real people!)


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Postby Wayland2002 » Tue May 15, 2007 9:01 am

Chris, yclept John Barber wrote:So if you start with a decent lower-budget low-poundage bow (say 30-40lb draw weight)


Agreed, but 30 - 40lb might be a bit much for a 16yo girl to start off with. I'm not being patronising, I used to help out with beginners coaching at a local archery club and have seen plenty of people give up after a couple of session because they were "over bowed" and suffering injuries because of it.



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Postby Colin MacDonald » Tue May 15, 2007 11:01 am

Agreed. I prefer a bow that I can draw well within my limits, so that I can more safely adjust for range without straining. A 30lbs draw is easily sufficient for most reenactment battles.

Heh, £390? <Irrelevant anecdote>I have two bows that cost me about £3.90 each, including the strings, plus a couple of hours with a spokeshave. It's really not that hard to make a shootable bow. Also, policemen are getting younger, and those damn kids are always on my lawn.</Irrelevant anecdote>

Steve Ralphs does decent longbows for £95 including postage, and very nice (target) arrows for £5 a pop. You may be able to get a slightly cheaper bow elsewhere, but I couldn't vouch for the quality.



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Postby gregory23b » Tue May 15, 2007 11:21 am

"I have two bows that cost me about £3.90 each, including the strings, plus a couple of hours with a spokeshave."

Excellent, I have a spare tenner may I have two please :D

very much second Steve Ralphs.


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Postby Phil the Grips » Tue May 15, 2007 12:38 pm

*sees hunting croosbow and goes to raid piggybank*


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Postby Colin Middleton » Tue May 15, 2007 12:45 pm

Chris, yclept John Barber wrote:You could PM kaybob for advice. She hasn't posted for a while due to pressure of studies and student life, but that's basically what she does. She gets bored doing one thing all the time, so she has two sets of kit and is girly in the kitchen, ducks out to be my glamourous assistant barber-surgeon during demonstrations, then nips off to a tent to 'bob up' for the battles or tourney.


She's also very handy at getting me and some of the others into and out-of (brave woman) our armour.

Lidi, if you're dressing/undressing people, its a non-combat job. Archery is a fighty thing. You can be more than one thing, just start by being there and find out what you like.


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Postby Chris, yclept John Barber » Tue May 15, 2007 3:44 pm

OK, I'll default to the knowledge of those who already posted here and drop my recommendation from 30-40lb to a 30lb bow. As I said: I'm not really an archer. I was working on the principle that some of the ladies in our group who aren't regular archers still use 35lb bows.

I wouldn't advise going any lighter than that as the resulting cast is low-powered enough that even shooting at our normal display range of 30-50 yards wind becomes a serious factor in accuracy.


Of course he has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives - it's 1183 and we're barbarians.

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Postby lidimy » Tue May 15, 2007 3:56 pm

Ok, thanks :) Have no idea what I will be using when I start in September, but obviously I'm not just about to go out and buy one right now when there wouldn't be much point, I don't even know if I like it yet :P

Lidi :)


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Postby Dave B » Tue May 15, 2007 7:14 pm

If I were you I'd make a shoping list like this:

1. Shoes; the simple ankle type that can be fairly unisex, or perhaps better a ladies shoe; First because they are harder and nastier to borrow, and are essentialy really.

2. then some plain linen and Sallys excellent leaflet on making medieval undies (or order 'the medieval tailors assistant' from the library. make a slip, again an item you don't want to have to borrow.

3. Some linen headwear.

4. a plain wool kirtle

5. a cheap plastic tent and sleeping bag.

From this point on you have probably enough kit to start coming to events, as you'll almost certainly be able to borrow everything else you might need along the lines of clothing and eating kit and there is no point buying weopons and armour till you've had a go.

I did a couple of events in civies with freinds to start off with, but by my first event I think I pretty much had shoes, hose, a shirt, and a simple cloak.

Cloth can be got pretty cheap from Bernie the bolt, so the only really expensive item should be the shoes, and they aren't so bad anymore. I know the GDFB aren't fantastic but the simple styles are OK.


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Postby Tuppence » Tue May 15, 2007 11:08 pm

1. Shoes; the simple ankle type that can be fairly unisex, or perhaps better a ladies shoe; First because they are harder and nastier to borrow, and are essentialy really.


I'd go with a style that's unisex, esp if you're not sure what you want to do yet - purely cos it's more flexible & doesn't tie you down to being one thing or the other. specialise later on.


and along with the sleeping bag & placcy tent, don't forget a crash mat, (or airbed if you want to be all posh about it) - have done sleeping on the ground with nothing but a sleeping bag, and it's not the most comfy thing ever).

and a rucksack to carry it all in's good, esp if you'll be getting to some things by train


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Postby Colin Middleton » Wed May 16, 2007 12:19 pm

Sounds like good advice, unless you've got a group backing you up, where their advice may be a bit different (e.g. we have group tents, so the tent isn't so important).

As to unisex shoes, I can't really think of any styles that are "women's shoes", though there are some that are definitely "men's shoes". Either aim for very low fitting ankle boots or a simple shoe. I've even seen soldiers painted wearing only buckle over shoes on their feet.

Good luck


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Postby lidimy » Wed May 16, 2007 12:31 pm

Well I have a arctic stylee sleeping bag and a light weight horsey fleece blanket :)

No tent though, no shoes either, I have a linen smock but that's Tudor :? Square necked and with sleeves gathered to a cuff.

About 1m left of linen.

4m of wool that we had decided was to be put to Sally's pattern, yay :D

Is the Mt's Assisstant much like the Tudor Tailor? I find that to be a very workable format :)

Lidi :)


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Postby Tuppence » Wed May 16, 2007 2:38 pm

I can't really think of any styles that are "women's shoes",


there are plenty out there - at least four or five that I can think of offhand - but not being a girl I wouldn't expect you to have paid much attention to them :lol:

the tudor shift would do in extremis, if you haven't much cash to get the stuff to make a new one. the only thing really wrong with it is the gathered to a cuff bit, and as long as it's well disguised (ie completely covered by your frock) it's get-away-with-able (I'd make a new one, but I buy linen by the kilometre :D )

the m t's assistant is very much like ninya's book - I find it a little over complicated, but that's just cos I prefer flat pattern cutting to the main premise of basing everything round a sloper cut on the body - it's a good start point though. but only if into late medieval - it's title should really be the late medieval tailor's assistant, cos it's no use if you're doing anything early / high medieval.


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Postby lidimy » Wed May 16, 2007 3:41 pm

I find it a little over complicated, but that's just cos I prefer flat pattern cutting to the main premise of basing everything round a sloper cut on the body


What do you mean? :shock:

I really regret the cuff on my sleeves actually. I only did it because it looks so lovely and neat and tidy, but even for my gown it isn't really suitable so I think I need to re do them anyway. But, as you say, I will probably be wanting a new one anyway, no point having kit that I can 'just' about pass in.
Why does linen have to be so expensive :?

Lidi :)


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Postby Colin Middleton » Thu May 17, 2007 12:51 pm

Tuppence wrote:
I can't really think of any styles that are "women's shoes",


there are plenty out there - at least four or five that I can think of offhand - but not being a girl I wouldn't expect you to have paid much attention to them :lol:


Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well did I. I can't think of any styles that are just for women, I know of several that are unisex.

If you know of some that are worn by women ONLY, I would be interested in some pointers of what to look for.

Many thanks


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Postby Tuppence » Thu May 17, 2007 2:59 pm

I got what you meant - it's mostly the lower cut versions that were worn only by women (morgan does a couple). but they're quite similar to men's and it's hard to describe how they're diffferent - they just are....

sorry - being completely unhelpful :D

What do you mean?


the medieval tailor uses a pattern cutting method where you get a 'sloper' or basic block pattern for the person you're making for, by pinning calico (or other cotton) around the body.

from that you cut the rest of the patterns.

I just prefer flat cutting to start with (though I do on occasion use slopers, I tend to do it my own way).


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Postby lidimy » Thu May 17, 2007 3:51 pm

the medieval tailor uses a pattern cutting method where you get a 'sloper' or basic block pattern for the person you're making for, by pinning calico (or other cotton) around the body.


Sounds tricky :? I like the TT, all I need to do is draw the pattern onto fabric and chop away. Even scaling up is easy!

Lidi :)


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Postby lidimy » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:53 pm

*resurrects thread*

Can an archer be knighted? Found a source showing one such being knighted on the spot by Charles II, but that's not much use as I need late Medieval examples.


Please and thank you!

Lidi :D


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Postby chrisanson » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:29 pm

bump
well some one must know???



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Postby Zachos » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:11 pm

There were cases of knights making battlefield promotions like that. On particular duke knighted the squire who had just beaten him and taken him hostage because he couldn't bear to be beaten by a simple squire.


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Postby Hraefn » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:32 am

For another veiw of knighthood in the late 14thC get yourself a copy (pester your library service) of 'Chaucers Knight' by Terry Jones, well worth a read.
Archery is a good cross period activity, the long bow , with a few changes in cross section, can be used for period displays up to Victorian and beyond plus was used recreationally by women too. Queen Liz I was s'posed to be a good shot but then you're hardly gonna tell the queen that she couldn't hit a cows bum with a shovel are you?
And as for women fighting I still laugh remembering the faces of a couple of white company chaps (Yes that long ago) as they were attacked by three of our ladies in dresses, felled by the company iron fry pan wielded two handed by one and finished off by being visciously jabbed with the hard end of two besoms, happy days :D

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Postby gregory23b » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:33 am

I dreamed about you Hraefn, last night as it happens, it was just like a normal conversation. See you in a while.


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Postby Hraefn » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:18 pm

Should I be worried :shock: , I can't move too fast at the mo or I'll pop me stitches :?



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Postby gregory23b » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:12 pm

Oh, goody. Hope it went well, remind me not to tickle you too hard next we meet. :twisted:


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Postby lidimy » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:29 pm

*polite cough*

so... archers can be knighted or...? Would he be expected to prove himself in hand to hand combat as well?


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Postby Phil the Grips » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:40 pm

If he's prepared to pay the massive associated costs (and costs stopped people from becoming knights from the C14th onwards while still maintaining their high social status) and can find the opportunities to get the promotion and do the politicking involved (with the most opportunities for these overseas which is why there was such a supply/demand for mercenaries, such as the Condottierri, who were largely the sons of middleclass mercantile families) then it a "yes"- technically anyway.


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Postby lidimy » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:51 pm

Hm, associated costs. That could be a problem.

So mercenaries - I'm a little confused. They are hired aren't they? And being such, you say they would get more chance for promotion by fighting overseas? How would that work?

(not doubting what you're saying, I'm just not clear on it!)


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