How to tell who is a Knight.

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guthrie
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Postby guthrie » Thu May 10, 2007 7:22 pm

Zachos wrote:I want a smaller sword. The one I have at the moment is too long for only one hand.

I did some banner bearing the other week. It was so much more tiring than fighting: I suppose you don't get the adrenaline running like you do with combat. No one would fight me either. Was very upset.

As Tuppence said, attacking banner bearers is frowned upon.
Mind you at Blore a couple of years ago, the Stanleys had their banner on a spear. The banner bearer lowered it and reversed it to use the spear. I spotted this and cut his leg before everyone jumped on me.

A decent bow is always a good investment, like a decent sword- if you give up after only a couple of yers you can sell it on, and if its a good one there is less chance of it breaking in use.



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Postby Theotherone » Thu May 10, 2007 7:30 pm

lidimy wrote:So looks like the choices at current are archer (needed) and Squire (wanted) and banner person (necessary)



Why has no one suggested water carrier?

If you want to be strapping bits on to Knights you can be doing it just as well in female dress, as long as you don't mind getting filthy. I always have to make them sit down so that I can reach their shoulders anyway.


Because there would have to be three of them.

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Postby stephen wootten » Thu May 10, 2007 7:39 pm

heheheh, im in italian angel wing pauldrons and while they are restrictive i can still do up my helm (look left <<<<) will post a piccy when i get one of me as thry are new. armour dose not do its job properly if it restricts you, however some pauldrons are for cavalry use (mine are but thy look soooo goood) and some are for foot combat use. chose which things are for which job, they would have done so why shouldnt we???

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Postby lidimy » Thu May 10, 2007 10:23 pm

If you want to be strapping bits on to Knights you can be doing it just as well in female dress


Oh, goody! Was worried I'd have to be a boy, lol :D

Cannons? coooooool! I didn't know that was Medieval.

Water carrier: surely, once I've done all the squirelley bits, I can change role and magically turn into a water carrier?


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Postby guthrie » Thu May 10, 2007 11:02 pm

First illustration of a cannon was around 1320, and it appears to be firing some kind of arrow. By the 1420's they were making bombards, bit enough to climb into that could fire balls of stone over a mile. They were using them on the battlefield in the wars of the roses, so the 1460's onwards, but the Hussites made good use of them in their battles in the early 1400's.

All you need to change into being a water bearer after helping the knights is put on a helmet and pick up some jugs of water. Then you follow us lot into battle, making sure to stay away from the fighting, and give us water when we need it. A few modern straws for people with helmets that make it hard for them to drink from glasses are very useful. Also, as water carried you are a non-com, anyone attacking you would get sent off the field. But you may get hit by stray arrows, and need to know not to look upwards into the sky.



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Postby lidimy » Thu May 10, 2007 11:14 pm

Sounds good to me :)


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Postby Tuppence » Thu May 10, 2007 11:51 pm

All you need to change into being a water bearer after helping the knights is put on a helmet and pick up some jugs of water.


oh I wish it had been that simple last time I water carried.

of course I did manage to somehow agree to be in charge of the water carriers for the norman army.....all of it :cry:

the price for the bow was roughly what I think an andy kirkham one costs (I think - it was nige doing the buying, not me :D ).


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Postby Nigel » Fri May 11, 2007 7:00 am

lidimy wrote:
Cannons? coooooool! I didn't know that was Medieval.


For a pic of probabaly the best looking gun in England have a looka t the eastnor thread on friends and gossip and then obsoerve the video


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Postby Chris, yclept John Barber » Fri May 11, 2007 8:19 am

guthrie wrote:They were using [cannon] on the battlefield in the wars of the roses, so the 1460's onwards, but the Hussites made good use of them in their battles in the early 1400's.



There were three small cannon on the battlefield at Crecy, 1346!


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Postby guthrie » Fri May 11, 2007 8:46 am

Chris, yclept John Barber wrote:There were three small cannon on the battlefield at Crecy, 1346!

Interesting. Did they do any good?

My comment on water carrying being simple was deliberately ignoring the wherewithal to actually run a squad of water carriers. Don't want to put her off just yet.



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Postby m300572 » Fri May 11, 2007 11:48 am

Chris, yclept John Barber wrote:

There were three small cannon on the battlefield at Crecy, 1346!

Interesting. Did they do any good?


From memory the discussions I have seen of them is that they wer good for making the occasional bang and producing clouds of foul smoke (no change there for black powder gunners then! :lol: ) but I don't think they had much impact in terms of causing casualties - might have frightened the horses/peasants though!


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Postby Chris, yclept John Barber » Fri May 11, 2007 12:36 pm

Yes, that's the impression I formed. Although the source (can't remember which one it was, sorry) did mention that the three cannon were used, it didn't say anything about their effect. Which implies they weren't worth the effort! :D


Of course he has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives - it's 1183 and we're barbarians.

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Postby Colin Middleton » Fri May 11, 2007 12:40 pm

Isn't that what Medieval guns were for, mostly just psychological impact and the odd casualty when someone got in the way? I know they were effective in seiges, but I'm thinking battlefield work.

Lidimy, when you say squire, do you mean someone who helps people into their armour or do you mean Squire (i.e. trainee knight)? If the former, most of our group muck in at arming time. We don't have any of the latter type of squire in our 15th C show.


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Postby lidimy » Fri May 11, 2007 3:56 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:
Lidimy, when you say squire, do you mean someone who helps people into their armour or do you mean Squire (i.e. trainee knight)? If the former, most of our group muck in at arming time. We don't have any of the latter type of squire in our 15th C show.


I don't know, I thought they were one and the same :? But someone important said something about wearing ladies clothes while squiring?

Asked a boy today how much his lngbow cost, and he said £390, does that sound about right?

Lidi :)


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Postby Wayland2002 » Fri May 11, 2007 4:32 pm

lidimy wrote:Asked a boy today how much his lngbow cost, and he said £390, does that sound about right?

Lidi :)


Its more than ive ever spent but if its a good quality bow that mighjt well be right.

I wouldn't spend that much until you've decided you like archery and worked up to the weight you're happy with



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Postby Simon_Diment » Fri May 11, 2007 5:12 pm

lidimy Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject:

Asked a boy today how much his lngbow cost, and he said £390, does that sound about right?


Not unless that's for a yew bow, otherwise that's extortionate! :shock:

Lidi, you can get a decent bow for around £100 and if you buy from a reputable bowyer and look after it well it will last for years. I have a bow by Richard Head that I bought in the early '90's and it still shoots sweet as a nut - I've gone through a few strings by now though.


If you need advice then just drop me a line as 2D has pointed out.

Cheers

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Postby Zachos » Fri May 11, 2007 5:22 pm

If he's not a re-enactor he may have a hunting bow with all sorts of special add ons that may make it cost a bit more than normal. I'd also suggest he may have exaggerated a bit to impress you.


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Postby lidimy » Fri May 11, 2007 5:27 pm

Lol Zachos.

I asked him if it was yew, and he said it was. Isn't it more authentic..?


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Postby Zachos » Fri May 11, 2007 5:35 pm

Yew was used and was considered very good, but I think its probably unlikely that every bow was made out of yew.

And everyone exaggerates the price of their kit when asked by a blond. Ask anyone.


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Postby guthrie » Fri May 11, 2007 6:05 pm

I'd also suggest asking about whether the bow was made the correct way around. As far as I can recall (And I cant find the book I need to check up) the g reat thing about yew for bows is that, when cut from the correct part of the tree, it has two kinds of material with complementary but different properties. One part is compressible and the other good under tension, so when you draw the bow the two different sorts of material act to give you a good powerful bow.

My composites lecturers would have given their left leg, some teeth and maybe some fingers to be able to make cmoposites as good as wood. WE're getting there, but it is very hard.



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Postby Simon_Diment » Fri May 11, 2007 6:27 pm

guthrie
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject:
I'd also suggest asking about whether the bow was made the correct way around. As far as I can recall (And I cant find the book I need to check up) the g reat thing about yew for bows is that, when cut from the correct part of the tree, it has two kinds of material with complementary but different properties. One part is compressible and the other good under tension, so when you draw the bow the two different sorts of material act to give you a good powerful bow.

My composites lecturers would have given their left leg, some teeth and maybe some fingers to be able to make cmoposites as good as wood. WE're getting there, but it is very hard.


It's heartwood for the belly of the bow that is compressed when it's drawn and sapwood on the back for spring.

European yew was imported into Britain as the grain is longer and more suitable for bow making, but then on the other hand almost any hardwood timber can be used - the Welsh were reported as using bows of 'Rough Elm' by Gerald of Wales in the mid C12th. Ash is a good one to use.

Most modern longbows are laminated of 2+ layers that include all the weird and wonderful timbers such as purpleheart, orange, bamboo etc.


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Postby Colin Middleton » Sat May 12, 2007 9:42 am

Yew (from Spain, I think) was used for the best bows. Also used were Ash, Labernum and I think Wych Elm (but I could be wrong on that last one). Again, we're back to the question of who are you going to be and what are you going to be doing.

Lidimy, if you're going to be a household archer in a living history society (and you'll have to be a very convincing man to manage that), you'll want a proper yew bow. If you're just going to be an archer in battles or a woman with a bow, then one of the composites that Simon mentioned should be fine.

Taking a guess at what you're planning, I'd take Simon's advice on the cheaper staring bow too.


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Postby Cat » Sat May 12, 2007 3:37 pm

Richard Head does a good package for a starter lemon wood(?) bow and six arrows, about the £100 mark. Bucket has one, and it is very resilient.

Lidi, be aware that you may be required to dress 'blokey' as an archer-didn't know you weren't keen, sorry. As far as female roles on the field go, you are limited to water carrier, pretty much although Ruth and the Red Crows dress female to fight (tips hat to all mentioned). You will have to be prepared to be looked at funny by some people if you do.

(Last Berkeley, for various reasons I wasn't going to fight the last one on Saturday, and was dressed female being on Living History camp, then got persuaded by several of my group to fight in spite of wearing my dress (lowish status, so runnable-in) It is now named 'Battledress', but I felt very odd so doing.)


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Postby Simon_Diment » Sat May 12, 2007 5:17 pm

Did I mention that Conquest openly encourage our ladies to shoot as women as part of the demonstration? It's only during mass battles (non-EH) that they have to dress as men.
Last edited by Simon_Diment on Sat May 12, 2007 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Postby lidimy » Sat May 12, 2007 7:03 pm

I don't know what to do anymore, lol! I think it may end up varying from event to event at the rate I'm going :oops: But that'd be a bit pricey methinks...

Gosh I just don't know... want to be a Squirelle at at least one event, cos I have someone that I want/need/have to meet, and I also told Craig that I'd help Sara (to be carried over from Rougham) and after that, I duon't know!

Lidi :)


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Postby craig1459 » Sat May 12, 2007 7:45 pm

Not a problem! Well we'll lend you kit for a start :D


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Postby lidimy » Sat May 12, 2007 8:01 pm

Thanks a bunch :D


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Postby Graham Field » Sat May 12, 2007 10:29 pm

Colin Middleton wrote:Yew (from Spain, I think) was used for the best bows.


Yes and after Edward, the Prince of Wales victory at Najera in 1366, the Spanish destroyed many of their Yew trees to deprive the English of good Yew.

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Postby Chris, yclept John Barber » Mon May 14, 2007 8:43 am

lidimy wrote:I don't know what to do anymore, lol! I think it may end up varying from event to event at the rate I'm going :oops: But that'd be a bit pricey methinks...

Gosh I just don't know... want to be a Squirelle at at least one event, cos I have someone that I want/need/have to meet, and I also told Craig that I'd help Sara (to be carried over from Rougham) and after that, I duon't know!

Lidi :)


You could PM kaybob for advice. She hasn't posted for a while due to pressure of studies and student life, but that's basically what she does. She gets bored doing one thing all the time, so she has two sets of kit and is girly in the kitchen, ducks out to be my glamourous assistant barber-surgeon during demonstrations, then nips off to a tent to 'bob up' for the battles or tourney.


Of course he has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives - it's 1183 and we're barbarians.

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Postby lidimy » Mon May 14, 2007 4:04 pm

Lol, sounds like my kinda life :P

I'd prefer to give everything a try before I become a specialist in anything (and I'll probably have to be at least 40 to be one anyway!)

BTW, got back to the long bow boy today, he said that the £390 covered the bow, a few spars strings, case, and a few dozen metal tipped arrows too. Does that sound more reasonable...?

Lidi :)


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