Battle of Bannockburn 2007

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Nigel
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Post by Nigel »

RTB even if Iw a sconsidering going given the lack of comms and the now using of the particiapnts for gain (I assume the History channel is paying a fee) I would be reversing my decision.

Iam not arrogant enough to assume I make an event BUT given the lsit of who is not atneding grows longer by the post I would be interested in seeing who is ?
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Post by Lady Cecily »

Dave B wrote:
Colin MacDonald wrote:I won't duplicate the kit guide, but you can find a strikingly similar one for the highly recommended Lanark 2007, courtesy (and copyright) of Tournée.

It is an excellent kit guide isn't it, I'd heard of it but not seen it before. Although perhaps a couple of 'osprey' type pictures would really make it clear.
Maybe I'll have to get one of the groups artists onto it. Thanks for the suggestion.
Caroline

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Post by Dave B »

Or just pictures of people in kit- I didn't neccesarily mean drawings, just the idea of having a picture of a small group in 'archetypal', eg as spearman, man-at-arms, a knight so that people understand the general style being looked for.

Obviously those who already concentrate on the period know but those who might be slightly earlier or later who want to support the event might benefit.

BTW I was one of the 15thC re-enactors who was persuaded to come to the first bannockburn (not, but you know what I mean) we did make some effort, ditching sallets and replacing with kettles, wearing long shirts untucked to cover wrong hose styles, leaving hte armour off and fighting with spears. however several of us got roundly critisised by Mr Murphy and never came back. I still thought though that the 15thC jacks and joined hose paled into insignificance compared to the tartan car blankets but there you are. a clear kit guide lets people know where they stand.
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Post by NTS »

Fees have not been discussed with the history channel as I was approached on an educational basis. If we are able to get a fee it would only be a very nominal fee (usually if I am very lucky £100 -£200) and I repeat, nothing has been agreed at this moment. In this situation I would not expect to get the fee as the aim is to get as much publicity for Bannockburn, its place in Scottish and the British Isles History and the development project. I am currently trying to secure funding to replace the very dated audio visual at the centre and would be interested in securing some of the filming from the history channel to help create the new film for the centre.

I only mentioned the filming as a courtesy so that if people wished to participate they would get credit on the filming and for those who wished not to be involved would get the privacy they wished for.

If I am able to acquire it fee will only go towards covering the ever increasing costs of the reenactment.

Please I can I ask you to remember the NTS is a charity with ever increasing costs. I have to cover the costs of this event the last event put on by the royal armouries and the NTS central offices ( David Sharland) lost over £40,000 - that is not sustainable.

I have never hid the fact that as a charity the NTS has to keep the costs as low as possible. However, as I said previously I am willing to discuss fees/expenses with societies who wish to attend this years event. I fully understand that there are costs to any society attending any event and althougth I may not be able to pay your usual fee, I have never said that I will not contribute to your costs. All I ask is that you try and keep fees reasonable as I have a limited budget. I would like as many people as possible to be part of this years event and contributing to everyone's costs. If you have any questions please feel to contact me at battleofbannockburn@nts.org.uk or acorley@nts.org.uk or I can be reached on 01786 812664 or 07713 786233.

Please help me make this event what it deserves to be.

As always thank you for time.

Alison

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Post by RTB »

Good for you Alison,
all the best for this years event, and I wish you every success for the future.

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Post by Alan_F »

Dave B wrote:
Colin MacDonald wrote:I won't duplicate the kit guide, but you can find a strikingly similar one for the highly recommended Lanark 2007, courtesy (and copyright) of Tournée.

It is an excellent kit guide isn't it, I'd heard of it but not seen it before. Although perhaps a couple of 'osprey' type pictures would really make it clear.
You mean like the Gaddgedlar Bannockburn kit guide?
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Post by Colin MacDonald »

Dave B wrote:BTW I was one of the 15thC re-enactors who was persuaded to come to the first bannockburn (not, but you know what I mean) we did make some effort, ditching sallets and replacing with kettles, wearing long shirts untucked to cover wrong hose styles, leaving hte armour off and fighting with spears.
That sounds ideal. Not to belabour the point, but dressing down is the cure for many anachronisms, and I really appreciate you doing that.

however several of us got roundly critisised by Mr Murphy and never came back.
Ouch. Is that based on this commentary? I won't speak for Paul, but I have a bad habit of noting the anachronisms in a portrayal, without remember to say explicitely that I actually like the rest of it! That's even more tempting a trap to fall into when a portrayal is 95% correct, otherwise you have to say "I think the shoes, hose, tunic, akheton, mailshirt, surcoat, helmet, sword and shield are great. But where's the ailettes?"

Any chance that's what's happened there?


I still thought though that the 15thC jacks and joined hose paled into insignificance compared to the tartan car blankets but there you are. a clear kit guide lets people know where they stand.
Indeed, or photographs. I'll go through my collection and see if I can find some archetypes.

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Post by Alan_F »

Dave B wrote:BTW I was one of the 15thC re-enactors who was persuaded to come to the first bannockburn (not, but you know what I mean) we did make some effort, ditching sallets and replacing with kettles, wearing long shirts untucked to cover wrong hose styles, leaving hte armour off and fighting with spears. however several of us got roundly critisised by Mr Murphy and never came back. I still thought though that the 15thC jacks and joined hose paled into insignificance compared to the tartan car blankets but there you are. a clear kit guide lets people know where they stand.
Dave, just so you know, those that did the criticising were not, in any way shape or form, involved in the organisation or running of the event.

BTW, I now know who you are! We met! You laughed at my jokes! You rock!
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Post by Dave B »

Colin MacDonald wrote: Any chance that's what's happened there?

.
Every chance. the comment was pretty mild along the lines of 'nice 15thC jack, shame bannockburn wasn't in the 15thC or similar

I just felt that by comparison with the tartan stuff it wasn't too bad.

Anyway I was just being grumpy when I posted. We didn't really not come back because of the critisism, it just turned out that we have had invites to more 15thC stuff that we are more suited to and have done them instead.

Actually at the two bannockburns we did, we had a good time.

Dave
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Colin MacDonald
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Post by Colin MacDonald »

Eh, well, there's an argument to be made that armour is PPE. Good on you for not throwing a dodgy tabard over the top of it, anyway.

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Post by Colin MacDonald »

Monthly bump. 8 weeks to go.

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Battle of Bannockburn

Post by NTS »

With just over six weeks to go to this year's reenactment :P could I just take a moment to thank all those societies and individuals who have confirmed their attendance at this year's event if you are planning to participate at this years event but have yet to confirm your attendance please could I ask you to get in touch. I can be reached via email battleofbannockburn@nts.org.uk or acorley@nts.org.uk or 07713786233. On a personal note can I thank everyone who has been very supportive as I try and get this event back on the annual calendar - all comments and advice have been gratefully received. :)

thanks again

Alison

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Post by zauberdachs »

I'm quite looking forward to it this year :)

Sans tartan blankets it should be quite a different vibe. Anyone else hopeful?
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Post by Colin MacDonald »

It'd be super to hear that there's a big list of confirmed attendees, particularly English chaps and chapettes.

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Post by zauberdachs »

Aye, I'd quite like to know rough numbers as well. I'm imagining there will be quite a cut of folk but it shouldn't be too bad...
Do not be loath, diligent reader, to winnow my chaff, and lay up the wheat in the storehouse of your memory. For truth regards not who is the speaker, nor in what manner it is spoken, but that the thing be true - Nennius, 8th century

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Post by Ecce »

Alan_F wrote:
guthrie wrote:Alan, have you tried e-mailing her to ask for an invite?
Guthrie, I asked six months ago about it and got nothing back. As a result, Gaddgedlar will not be supporting this event.
Ummmm......and you didn't tell me this why exactly?
Anyway, I've just e-mailed her asking to go.

I'm going anyway, so there. Gules, three bezants. See you on the field hopefully.

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Post by Nigel »

ecce I'll look forward to your thoughts on this event

if you think it has legs I'll maybe think about coming up
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Post by Tuppence »

Every chance. the comment was pretty mild along the lines of 'nice 15thC jack, shame bannockburn wasn't in the 15thC or similar

I just felt that by comparison with the tartan stuff it wasn't too bad.
oh the car blankets are fun.

well, fun to test with a lighter anyways :twisted:

and hey - could be worse - you should see me in kit check mode when I'm hungover... apparently one woman cried - I still have no idea why, all I said was that she'd have to be a tart if she was dressed like that :shock: (really though, hair out, boobs mostly out - what did she expect :roll: )

anyway - completely off the point.
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Post by Tuppence »

my point actually was to say that bannockburn could be a truly spectacular event if somebody has the balls to say no the the s****
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Post by guthrie »

Tuppence wrote:my point actually was to say that bannockburn could be a truly spectacular event if somebody has the balls to say no the the s****
I believe certain be-kilted people are not attending this year, so that is a start.

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Post by Nigel »

YERS AND THEY AHVE SAID THAT EVERY YEAR

If it actually happens I will be happy and think its a start
There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Post by Tuppence »

It's true - they always say that the tartan tribe will be banned this year.

They were the year I went, then were everywhere you turned.

What I mean is that somebody needs to have the guts to tell them they can't take part when they show up. It's the only way that the event will ever have any real credability.
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Colin MacDonald
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Post by Colin MacDonald »

Nigel, I respect for your reasons for not attending, but aren't we veering a bit close to this?

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Post by PaulMurphy »

I think you also have to take account of the "unusual" elements in the Scottish public - the people in tartan with dodgy claymores and C17th shirts could indeed be members of one of the many Clan McHalfords societies, but they're just as likely to be a MOP who believes that he's doing his bit for "the cause", or worse still, someone who dresses like that regularly in their normal life.

As a Scot, I think its a bit sad and a damning indictment of the state of history teaching in Scotland (and yet another reason to put Mel Gibson on the Most Wanted list), but it is a fact of life when doing Scottish shows. Just like community events in many parts of England will be infested with people wearing bells and clogs claiming to represent the true folk history of the area going back hundreds of generations.

Personally, I'd like the organisers to refuse entry to anyone deemed to be in fancy dress, but they prefer to take their cash and let them in, and can't understand that everyone else thinks they're re-enactors and therefore what they are wearing must be correct :oops:

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Post by Tuppence »

Paul's right.

It's just unfortunate that there's a small number of infiltrators who manage to make it to being part of the actual event, rather than the mops.

And Colin - it only becomes flogging a dead horse when the issue has been proven to be resolved.

til it is resolved, it's still an issue, and therefore worthy of discussion.
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Post by Colin MacDonald »

Can there yet remain a soul in Christendom who is unaware of the issues with previous Bannockburns?

I remain resolutely hopeful that Alison has got the message by now that there needs to be real active policing of the event on the day, including muster kit and equipment checks, and a polite but firm invitation to the worst Blaydwülf- and BWAD[*]-style MoPs to vacate the site.

It could happen. There's no reason why it shouldn't be a fun, safe event this year. It could happen! ;)

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Post by RTB »

Have I got this straight?
Are we saying that any MOP's who show up wearing Halfords style tartan (c/w the ginger wig/tam-o-shanater combo), should not be allowed in?
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Post by Jenn »

I have been to quite a few forties events where you often get MOPS turning up wearing er interesting interpretations of period clothing or Nazi regalia at an event where it is not appropriate they have been asked politely to wear a large, flourescent visitors badge . 99% of people are quite happy to comply with this and you then have some grounds to ask them to leave if they remove it - "since H&S might be breeched if anyone confused them with the re-enactors" or something similar.

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Post by Hobbitstomper »

Much easier to tell the police that anyone in tartan and carrying a sword is a nutter, not a re-enactor. Tartan + sword = nutter with an offensive weapon = easy arrest is something that the most "historically challenged" policeman could do.

Only a suggestion.

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Post by PaulMurphy »

RTB wrote:Have I got this straight?
Are we saying that any MOP's who show up wearing Halfords style tartan (c/w the ginger wig/tam-o-shanater combo), should not be allowed in?
In a word, YES

Imagine the scene - the Ermine Street Guard are marching through a historic site, and the only thing which spoils the overall look is the guy at the back in tinfoil breastplate, Black Watch kilt, ancient greek helmet, and what looks like blue paint on his arms... Oh, wait, he's a member of the public who's come in fancy dress, so that's all right then?

Or a WW2 re-enactment with someone doing a Nazi salute while wearing an SS uniform, who just happens to be nothing to do with the event - but he's a MOP, so that's alright, isn't it? And the 3-page spread in the Sun is all good publicity, isn't it?

Actually, no, its not alright - because 99.9% of the public are convinced that he's a re-enactor, since to them he's in kit. The organiser complains about the authenticity they were promised being let down by one or two people, and the photos which are published result in the society's reputation taking a pounding, even if they spot the outcry and try to explain that its a MOP who tagged along.

Plus, there are some events I've been to where it is assumed by the organisers that anyone in kit is a re-enactor, and therefore OK to go on the field. Agreed, 90% of the problem is in their lack of checks, but the point remains valid.

Plus, in many of the cases I've seen, the people happily being allowed onto the site are carrying sharp weapons, have an attitude problem, and are usually somewhat under the influence of alcohol as well.

So yes, I'd refuse them entry, and make that part of the contract, which I've done on previous events where this was a potential problem.

Paul.
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